Spain looks for Treasure Wrecks

[old man]

(All, I can say is it's about time that they started looking for their own wrecks, instead of stealing them from others.)


Treasure or junk? Spain finds possible shipwrecks.

By DANIEL WOOLLS, Associated Press Writer Daniel Woolls, Associated Press Writer – Wed Oct 6, 8:25 am ET

MADRID – Spanish Navy vessels looking for sunken treasure off the country's coast have found around 100 possible shipwrecks in the first fruit of a drive to protect Spain's historical heritage from private salvagers seeking gold and other booty.

Two minesweepers and other vessels located the sites in Atlantic waters off the southwestern city of Cadiz as part of a campaign that began Sept. 8 and is due to last two months, the Culture Ministry said Tuesday.

Spain wants to avoid a repeat of a saga that began in 2007 when Tampa, Florida-based Odyssey Marine Exploration found a sunken Spanish galleon and salvaged from it an estimated $500 million in silver coins and other artifacts.

That ship, the Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes, was sunk by the British navy southwest of Portugal in 1804 while sailing back from South America with more than 200 people on board. A U.S. court ruled last year the loot belongs to Spain but the company has appealed and still has the treasure, holding it in the United States.

Spanish Navy officials were not immediately available to comment on which if any of the new possible shipwrecks might be valuable or when marine archeologists might determine this.

So far, 15 of the sites have been analyzed and the only thing of value that has turned up is an 18th-century anchor, the newspaper El Pais reported Wednesday.

It quoted Navy Admiral Daniel Gonzalez-Aller, the director of the search effort, as saying most of the sites examined so far will be ruled out as worthless and include remains of seaside human settlements and possibly even junk like washing machines.

Spain's defense and culture ministers, Carme Chacon and Angeles Gonzalez-Sinde, boarded one of the minesweepers taking part in the search Tuesday and insisted they are very serious about protecting vestiges of Spain's past.

"Where some see loot, we see our history. Where some look for gold, we find our heritage. Where others would seek to pillage, our calling is to conserve," Chacon said in a speech aboard the ship.

The Culture Ministry estimates there are more than 3,000 sites in Spanish coastal waters with shipwrecks, remains of airplanes, submarines or human settlements, but most of them are remains of ships. Of that total, it says as many as 800 could be in waters off Cadiz.

Future stages of the search campaign will target other areas of Spain's coast, with the ultimate goal of developing a map of where on the seabed shipwrecks lie.

[Kut2TheChase]

"Where some see loot, we see our history. Where some look for gold, we find our heritage. Where others would seek to pillage, our calling is to conserve," Chacon said in a speech aboard the ship

-What a crock

[Saturna]

Hey, very good Spain. Those wrecks have been there for how many centuries and you've finally clued in that you can look for them, rather than letting others do it and then trying to claim everything once it's found by someone else.

[LM]

Hey, very good Spain. Those wrecks have been there for how many centuries and you've finally clued in that you can look for them, rather than letting others do it and then trying to claim everything once it's found by someone else.

Totally agreed. If Spain wants to put their money where their mouth is by searching for and recovering this stuff themselves, horray for them. They should be entitled to that, just as anyone should be entitled to do the same, per the laws of the ocean. The ugly part is when other people do the heavy lifting and they come along with lawsuits after the fact to claim it as the results of their hard work as their own... That is disgusting.

[jeff of pa]

(All, I can say is it's about time that they started looking for their own wrecks, instead of stealing them from others.)

exactly what I Was going to post when I Read your Headline

[signumops]

Junk washing machines?

All they have to do is buy a copy of Claudio Bonifacio's "Galleons con Tesoros" (the English edition is "Galleons And Sunken Treasure") and they would FIND something they might think is of historic 'value'. He practically dumps it in their laps.

[bigscoop]

Let's see, how's this work? Many years ago Spain set out on a world treasure quest and whenever they found treasure they took it by whatever means of force they needed to apply. Perhaps we'll never know how many people they actually abused and killed during these quest, but it is certain that the number is large and on a wide global scale. Then, after all their brutality and looting, they put this "stolen and looted" treasure on ships and they try to sail it back home but some of it is lost at sea. Now, many years later, Spain is still claiming ownership of these lost looted treasures and trying to protect them from......"looters?" How ironic!

[FISHEYE]

This news could be good for future cases with spain on shipwrecks we found.Since now they are salvaging wrecks they cant say its a gravesite and just leave the treasure on the bottom.You know they will disturb the wrecks they find and get the treasure.

[truckinbutch]

"Where some see loot, we see our history. Where some look for gold, we find our heritage. Where others would seek to pillage, our calling is to conserve," Chacon said in a speech aboard the ship

-What a crock

Lived on a farm all my life . Not hard for me to recognize male bovine fecal material when I see it in print
Jim

[capt dom]

Let's see, how's this work? Many years ago Spain set out on a world treasure quest and whenever they found treasure they took it by whatever means of force they needed to apply. Perhaps we'll never know how many people they actually abused and killed during these quest, but it is certain that the number is large and on a wide global scale. Then, after all their brutality and looting, they put this "stolen and looted" treasure on ships and they try to sail it back home but some of it is lost at sea. Now, many years later, Spain is still claiming ownership of these lost looted treasures and trying to protect them from......"looters?" How ironic!

You missed the part of the rulers of the Spains, which actually were Austrians
did all of the above in the name of the "BIG GUY"!
Praise the Lord!
It is amazing how governments can band together
to protect their own sorted interests in either the
name of protecting the public interest
or in the name of Jesus!

[bigscoop]

Let's see, how's this work? Many years ago Spain set out on a world treasure quest and whenever they found treasure they took it by whatever means of force they needed to apply. Perhaps we'll never know how many people they actually abused and killed during these quest, but it is certain that the number is large and on a wide global scale. Then, after all their brutality and looting, they put this "stolen and looted" treasure on ships and they try to sail it back home but some of it is lost at sea. Now, many years later, Spain is still claiming ownership of these lost looted treasures and trying to protect them from......"looters?" How ironic!

You missed the part of the rulers of the Spains, which actually were Austrians
did all of the above in the name of the "BIG GUY"!
Praise the Lord!
It is amazing how governments can band together
to protect their own sorted interests in either the
name of protecting the public interest
or in the name of Jesus!

But couldn't this same history be used against their claims of ownership in the courts, at least in those related shipwrecks? I just don't get it.

[Saturna]

You know they will disturb the wrecks they find and get the treasure.

I suspect alot of these shallower wrecks have already been trashed (along with the seabed) by draggers over the years.

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Let's see, how's this work? Many years ago Spain set out on a world treasure quest and whenever they found treasure they took it by whatever means of force they needed to apply. Perhaps we'll never know how many people they actually abused and killed during these quest, but it is certain that the number is large and on a wide global scale. Then, after all their brutality and looting, they put this "stolen and looted" treasure on ships and they try to sail it back home but some of it is lost at sea. Now, many years later, Spain is still claiming ownership of these lost looted treasures and trying to protect them from......"looters?" How ironic!

You missed the part of the rulers of the Spains, which actually were Austrians
did all of the above in the name of the "BIG GUY"!
Praise the Lord!
It is amazing how governments can band together
to protect their own sorted interests in either the
name of protecting the public interest
or in the name of Jesus!

LOL. I'm still laughing You guys do it the name of GREED ! Greed is good Like controlling the oil wells in Iraq ( Black Gold ) not much has changed in hundreds of years.
We should all work together for a better world ( one world one Planet ) and share the wealth around.
Nice to dream
Stealing there own wrecks You guys crack me up !!
Ossy

[capt dom]

Let's see, how's this work? Many years ago Spain set out on a world treasure quest and whenever they found treasure they took it by whatever means of force they needed to apply. Perhaps we'll never know how many people they actually abused and killed during these quest, but it is certain that the number is large and on a wide global scale. Then, after all their brutality and looting, they put this "stolen and looted" treasure on ships and they try to sail it back home but some of it is lost at sea. Now, many years later, Spain is still claiming ownership of these lost looted treasures and trying to protect them from......"looters?" How ironic!

You missed the part of the rulers of the Spains, which actually were Austrians
did all of the above in the name of the "BIG GUY"!
Praise the Lord!
It is amazing how governments can band together
to protect their own sorted interests in either the
name of protecting the public interest
or in the name of Jesus!

But couldn't this same history be used against their claims of ownership in the courts, at least in those related shipwrecks? I just don't get it.

The rats are guarding the cheese me boy....

The worst most despicable black pirates of the
21st century now have law degrees and are in public
employ!!!

nobody in the private sector can out spend
on a defence, the guys who own the printing
presses....

[diggemall]

OK, lemme see if I got this right

several hundred years ago, a bunch of spaniard treasure seekers kiped all this silver and gold from the americas.....south, central, and north.

Because they loaded it on THIR boats, that made it THEIRS

Then along comes a few modern-day treasure seekers, find some of this stuff and haul it up on their boats.......

If spain can still lay claim to the booty against the modern day seekers, why can't all of the indigenous people of the Americas file some sort of collective class action suit against spain to reclaim it from them ? If not, then by the same reasoning that allows spain to claim their plunder, the modern day hunters should have the same contemporary claim rights.

Seems straight forward to me

Diggem'

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

OK, lemme see if I got this right

several hundred years ago, a bunch of spaniard treasure seekers kiped all this silver and gold from the americas.....south, central, and north.

Because they loaded it on THIR boats, that made it THEIRS

Then along comes a few modern-day treasure seekers, find some of this stuff and haul it up on their boats.......

If spain can still lay claim to the booty against the modern day seekers, why can't all of the indigenous people of the Americas file some sort of collective class action suit against spain to reclaim it from them ? If not, then by the same reasoning that allows Spain to claim their plunder, the modern day hunters should have the same contemporary claim rights.

Seems straight forward to me

Diggem'

Your right Diggem, but what about there land you still occupy, how about a reclaim !!
The gold sitting in fort Knox which is 100 times more than Spain ever took, how about giving that back
to the Indigenous people or the Americas.
should open both eyes, and it would look more straight forward.
Ossy

[diggemall]

OK, lemme see if I got this right

several hundred years ago, a bunch of spaniard treasure seekers kiped all this silver and gold from the americas.....south, central, and north.

Because they loaded it on THIR boats, that made it THEIRS

Then along comes a few modern-day treasure seekers, find some of this stuff and haul it up on their boats.......

If spain can still lay claim to the booty against the modern day seekers, why can't all of the indigenous people of the Americas file some sort of collective class action suit against spain to reclaim it from them ? If not, then by the same reasoning that allows Spain to claim their plunder, the modern day hunters should have the same contemporary claim rights.

Seems straight forward to me

Diggem'

Your right Diggem, but what about there land you still occupy, how about a reclaim !!
The gold sitting in fort Knox which is 100 times more than Spain ever took, how about giving that back
to the Indigenous people or the Americas.
should open both eyes, and it would look more straight forward.
Ossy

MY point was rhetorical, NOT judgemental..............most everywhere on the globe one would have to go back tens of thousands of years to determine the "true" indigenous people.

IF I were to argue this case, my contention would be that the last prior claimants have been long deceased. Noone ELSE has made any effort to locate or recover. In international waters : Finders Keepers.

Diggem'

[Kut2TheChase]

finders keepers. losers...weep=Thats it.

[Saturna]

Ultimately, humans don't really 'own' stuff (including land).




They only control it.

[ivan salis]

psst you guys missed the part about it being ----"worthless" human seaside settlements by the spanish navy admiral in charge of it -- (old sea towns) --uh part of their heritage * "worthless" -- his words not mine **** ( they scream about "protecting" their heritage --yet find old sea town archeology sites "worthless" hummm) -- seems that only the silver , gold and other valuibles need "protecting" by their standards

look at what bob marx did with port royal * yep old sea town sites --"worthless" as far as archeology goes according to spain -just goes to show --its ALL about the money with spain --always has been , always will be ---from as far back as when they looted it from the enslaved locals in central and south america long ago till today

at least now their at least looking for their own old treasure ships in nearby local waters instead of trying to rip off salvagers finds *