somethings I have been reading ...

[cornelis 816]

Don John Perez de Guzman . The isle of St Catharina . ...........they set forth from the port of Cartagena the second day of August , and the 10th of said month they arrived within sight of the isle of Catharina , towards the western point thereof . And although the wind was contrary , yet they reached the port , and came to anchor within it , having lost one of their boats , by faul weather , at the rock called QUITA SIGNOS . Cornelius

 

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[old man]

The buccaneers of America. St Catherine Island. Located off the coast of Nicaragua.



In 1630, Providence Island was settled by English Puritans, under the aegis of the Providence Island Company. These Puritans decided to settle this promising tropical island rather than cold, rocky New England, but they did not succeed in building a colony similar to New England. They established slave-worked plantations and engaged in privateering, which led to the capture of the colony by the Spanish in 1641.[2] In the 1640s, the Puritan-controlled Commonwealth government of England tried to regain the island, but without success. In 1670, English buccaneers led by Henry Morgan took over the islands. The buccaneers controlled the islands until 1689.
See also: Colombia-Nicaragua relations

In 1803, Spain assigned the islands and the province of Veraguas (western Panama and the east coast of Nicaragua) to the Viceroyalty of New Granada. The territory was administered from the province of Cartagena.

On July 4, 1818, French Corsair Louis-Michel Aury, flying the Argentine flag, captured Old Providence and St. Catherine islands with the help of 400 men and 14 ships. He found the island populated by English-speaking Protestant white persons and their slaves. Aury and his team used the islands as his new base from which to pursue Central American independence. His efforts to also support Bolivar in his fight for Venezuelan and Colombian independence were repeatedly turned down.

 

[cornelis 816]

Old Man . Does'nt the reponce to this post show you how little interest there is to the real subject of Treasure diving , salvage and research ! I think only a few of the real pirates are left . Cornelius

 

[Mackaydon]

Cornelius:

Yes, gone are the days of the modern day treasure hunting 'pirates'. That's understandable, however, in light of today's reality that includes no more 'easy pickins', adverse court rulings (Spanish claims), UNESCO restrictions, drug interdictions challenges on the high seas (more boardings on 'good guys' boats) and more areas banning TH--or now enforcing previously 'loose administration' of the rules.

My interest in the subject is still acute, but participating, today, needs to be more thoroughly planned, requires more money and time. Add this economic environment and, no doubt, there are less 'visible' participants (pirates)--though I don't think it can be concluded that interest has waned in the subjects you mentioned.
Don........

 

[Panfilo]

Cornelis:
Santa Catalina is a very small island, a stone throw away from the island of Providencia, which forms part of a “DEPARTAMENTO” of Colombia or to put it in US terms a ‘State”. You are referring to the Quitasueño bank which is also a part of Colombia, situation that was ratified by the US in the 1972 Vasquez-Saccio treaty, though it is claimed by Nicaragua in clear contradiction to the 1928 Esguerra-Barcenas treaty which both countries signed and later ratified by their respective senates.
I’m not sure who you are referring to, “John” Perez de Guzman is not a regular Spanish name, you might be referring to the Governor of Panama in Morgan’s time, Juan Perez de Guzman y Gonzaga but as you place no year it’s hard to tell.
That being said, you have not mentioned what your interest is in this episode.
Panfilo

 

[Reef Dawg]

Old Man . Does'nt the reponce to this post show you how little interest there is to the real subject of Treasure diving , salvage and research ! I think only a few of the real pirates are left . Cornelius

Cornelis, I agree only to a certain extent.

I have read your postings on here and I envy at times your knowledge, but on this subject, there are REAL PIRATES out there, but they choose to go underground. Why post certain information on here that ends up in the files of "Big Brother."

Most of my life has been spent on the water. From the days as a kid poaching fish instead of getting a newspaper route, to hunting treasure mainland side, to now, for the past (5) years, searching for maritime losses, I have seen it change into yet another Government extension and invasion of the rights for salvors and the private sector alike.

Just my opinion Cornelis.

 

[bigscoop]

Old Man . Does'nt the reponce to this post show you how little interest there is to the real subject of Treasure diving , salvage and research ! I think only a few of the real pirates are left . Cornelius

Cornelis, I agree only to a certain extent.

I have read your postings on here and I envy at times your knowledge, but on this subject, there are REAL PIRATES out there, but they choose to go underground. Why post certain information on here that ends up in the files of "Big Brother."

Most of my life has been spent on the water. From the days as a kid poaching fish instead of getting a newspaper route, to hunting treasure mainland side, to now, for the past (5) years, searching for maritime losses, I have seen it change into yet another Government extension and invasion of the rights for salvors and the private sector alike.

Just my opinion Cornelis.

Let's face it, it's all come full circle, today you're either a "pirate" or a government sanctioned "privateer".

 

[Mackaydon]

I believe there is still a sliver of space between the two, but clearly, a pirate today would be foolish to publically express what he's doing; perhaps, to avoid attention, not even express his interest in the subject.
Don....

 

[bigscoop]

I believe there is still a sliver of space between the two, but clearly, a pirate today would be foolish to publically express what he's doing; perhaps, to avoid attention, not even express his interest in the subject.
Don....

I agree with most of what you express, but even on private land, depending on what you discovered and/or removed, you could still find yourself facing a whole host of legal challenges if someone decides the discovery is worth pressing the issue, so where is this sliver? Sadly, in this country anyway, if it's something they deem as being worth going after there is a law in place, (and these various laws typically allow a very broad application) that will allow them a legal means to come after it. (Heck, even the laws and their definitions can be challenged in order to make them apply.) So in this country, if there is a sliver of certain space out there I'd sure like to know where it's at? Prior to the discovery, and depending on the value or significance of the discovery, if it was fabricated or transported by the hands of man then only a pirate or a privateer stands a chance of avoiding these issues, and the pirate had better get really lucky. Sad, but I think this is all true.

 

[Mackaydon]

Bigscoop;
My response was in reference to Cornelius first post--about a lost ship.
My response concerned recoveries from the sea, not land.
I agree land is a different ball game.
There is a sliver of work space for maritime interests, but I would not venture into US waters or other 'unfriendly' (IMHO) areas without iron clad prerequisites.
Don...

 

[OldGold74]

Nothing is more complicated now even the out of way places have politicians with own agendas "when in long grass walk softly and carry a big stick"

 

[cornelis 816]

It is refreshing to read that there are still real pirates amongst us . Wether on land or on the sea we should stay on topic as much as possible . To react on hear-say is not something I like to do . To answer to the posts that are just opinions of how some companies are reacting to archaeologists or government entities do not have my intention whatsoever . I am on old pirate that is doing research and form my opinions accordingly . I found many a shipwreck by doing my own research . I have been diving on quite a few of them . It is not always gold you are after . History is just as interesting to me as silver and gold . I have to agree with one thing though and that is that it takes quite a bit of capital to persue the hobby . One thing I have to get off my chest though and that is that for a real pirate the world is the play ground . I have worked in Mauritius , Madagascar . Indonesia , Castries and Sint Vincente . the Maldives and a few more of the out of this world plces ( at least in my time ! ) . It is not Florida alone . Although without a lot of capital a lot of us guys only have the opportunity to stay close to home . Cornelius

 

[SHARK]

Although without a lot of capital a lot of us guys only have the opportunity to stay close to home

And for some Treasure Hunters, with a world of experience, there is not enough money for gas & food, to even leave home.

 

[Mackaydon]

A dozen years ago there may have been a dozen US groups TH-ing offshore. Today, I can't list half that number. Yes, I may be 'out of touch'; then again, it may be a real sign of our current times--as Shark just suggested.
Welcome to TN Shark!
Don....

 

[cornelis 816]

Yes Don that is the touble nowadays . But beside that , it is nearly impossible to get a permit to start any kind of salvage . The government is stearing us in one direction and that is to start looking for a possible target . Then keep your mouth shut and try to salvage as much as you can . Get a little boat and take some fishing poles along. Just to hide the real purpose of your visits in a certain area . I did it , and it worked . I told two people however ( knowing better NOT to do that ). It backfired on me and I lost a great part of the loot . I still came out ahead of the game though . The two people I trusted ( it gets kind of lonely by youself in a small boat out on the ocean ) can't show their faces anymore in Florida . But ... so be it , they deserve it . If I am going out again I will take my ROV and PI Metal detector and hope for the best . I may catch a lot of fish though . Be careful because when you land your boat again there will most likely be some guys from ,,Fish and Game ,, checking your catch . Not smart to have some coins in your possession . Cornelius

 

[Mackaydon]

Cornelius;
Your experience (above) reminds me of the phrase:
"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer"
Who is a friend or an enemy is often determined after loot hits the deck--so wise to know, as best as possible, the personalities of those who we take under your wings in the discovery and salvage modes. We've both found out the hard way.
Don....

 

[Reef Dawg]

Cornelius;
Your experience (above) reminds me of the phrase:
"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer"
Who is a friend or an enemy is often determined after loot hits the deck--so wise to know, as best as possible, the personalities of those who we take under your wings in the discovery and salvage modes. We've both found out the hard way.
Don....

I agree strongly with this.

Listen, weighing the penalties of tangling with Tallahassee against getting caught "pirating," and therefore putting food on the table for my family, seems to me, Big Brother is going to get, or already is getting what they deserve.

Times are tough out there like never before, so given the choice, I'd rather stay true to Salvage Laws that were written hundreds of years ago and certain ones that hold true to this day, than blow all my operating capital on "red tape" driven by Office Trolls who are bent on destroying private sector recovery and salvage.

If the waters in this State are the waters of the Taxpayers, then darnit, that includes me too.

 

[Marc]

Although without a lot of capital a lot of us guys only have the opportunity to stay close to home

And for some Treasure Hunters, with a world of experience, there is not enough money for gas & food, to even leave home.

Especially when they have just purchased someone else's deluded fantasy - some ridiculously expensive - long range treasure locating contraption that only serves to find coin for the con man who sells it.

 

[cornelis 816]

Marc , you have been warned time and time again . The LRL do not work . But if you want to make sure just buy a unit and find out . Ask yourself one question , how come the minig companies are not using them . Would be a lot simpler for them ! Cornelius

 

[aquanut]

Cornelius,
I think Marc and you are saying the same thing...
Aquanut