the little details mean a lot when doing 1715 fleet "research"

[MyLuckyDay]

Re: the little details mean a lot when doing 1715 fleet "research"

Doesn't make sense... Why would the flagships be leading the convoy?!

 

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[ivan salis]

Re: the little details mean a lot when doing 1715 fleet "research"

spanish treasure convoys -- normally had at least 2 major treasure ships -- they were more armed and manned than the regular fleet vessels were thus they were the "battle ships" of the fleet --thus they lead the front and brought up the rear of the fleet normally --

I am using salmon's statement in the sept 20th letter that wreckage of a large vessels or vessels was found on the NORTH COAST OF ST AUGUSTINE -- along with the 1728 map markings --the two together items when used together might show the general area of area where the two "missing" unaccounted for 1715 vessels sank. ( the french prize vessel "El Cievro" and the tabbacco hauler San Miguel )--thus giving salvage folks a starting place to look at.

we know for a fact that the bulk of the 1715 fleet --8 vessels --all 5 of Ubilla'sfleet and 3 vessels of Echeverz fleet sank farther south. ( both of Echeverz's main treasure vessels and the dutch prize vessel- aka the Olandesa)

 

[Attila]

Re: the little details mean a lot when doing 1715 fleet "research"

Oh I agree

"Nothing to see here, move along, move along."

Sorry Bad joke, but I do agree.
This one map means nothing. I have seen entire cities move 30-40 miles from one map maker to another. It wasn't until well into the 1700's that maps started becoming accurate. Just compare this maps shape of Florida and the coast line to Romans map 50 years later.

Though I still think Ivan is on to something. There should be at least one wreck north of Sebastien inlet.

Just a question though, why does Romans map say 14 vessels? Just an error?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: the little details mean a lot when doing 1715 fleet "research"

yes its a error on romans map -- there were 12 vessels in the "combined" 1715 fleet --the french vessel GEIFFON -- the 5 vessel fleet of Ubilla and the 6 vessel fleet of Echeverz

the records I have show that all 5 of Ubilla's fleet plus the 2 major treasure vessels and the dutch prize vessel known as the Olandesa of Echeverz's fleet sank at the main known 1715 site .

the records also show that according to the fleets pilot --that 3 vessels of Echevrz's flleet broke away from the main fleet a day earlier before the main force of the storm hit the fleet --they like the griffon that left about 1/2 a day even earlier took a northerly tack -- theses vessels where not as heavily overloaded down as the main treasure vessels were and basically they made a break for it , rather than hang out with the very slow heavily overloaded main treasure fleet vessels -- the three were --the Concepcion , the french prize known as "El Ciervo" and the Tobbacco hauling NAO class vessel San Miguel -- note records show ---4 men of the Concepcion were reported as recovered on the cape --after their vessel went down they floated for a couple days on a hatch cover before it washed ashore at the cape * -- of the other two vessels -- salmon in his sept 20th , 1715 letter says-- nine nessels lost ( the 8 to the south plus the Concepcion makes 9 "accounted for" by salmons accounting) and of the 2 missing "gallones" (-Echeverz's fleet was called "gallones de terra firme")-----there is little doubt that they sank on the high seas as wreckage of a large vessel or vessels was found on the NORTH SHORE OF ST AUGUSTINE ---9 plus 2 means 11 spanish vessels -- the french vessel salmon was not 'accountible for" so basically its a non factor in his report letter to the king .

 

[ivan salis]

I think this needs to resurface...

 

[ivan salis]

(made 13 years after the 1715 fleet sinkings) this 1728 map in dutch basically says -- here is the silver fleet remains year of 1715 * as the location shown is quite a bit north of the well known 1715 wreck sites--- and close to St Augustine might this be a clue to one of the 3 missing Echeverz fleet vessels ?---the Conception was reportly lost near the cape - that would leave 2 the tobacco hauling nao San Miguel --and the French prize known as EL Ciervo --- the dutch were well known Spanish treasure fleetraiders and as often "fished for treasure " at Spanish treasure shipwreck sites with ropes and iron hooks .

 

[ARC]

This map is incorrect... In multiple ways. heh