Campsite of Salvage Minded Ais Indians?

[aquanut]

Cornelius,
Are you going to bring the DBP 2010 with you when you come to Florida?
and... By the way, the Indian River is off limits for anything over 50 years old without permits.
Old man, we'll have to check it out again. The connection to the coil was bad when I last went there.
Aquanut

 

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[cornelis 816]

John . Did you ever try to ship electronic equipment by plane ? I am flying with US AIR , and you may not pack any electronics . unless you take them apart in front of them and show it is only a meyal detector . What I can do is bring the schematics so somebody in your area can build it as I did . I will double check if there is another way to get the detector in Florida . Cornelius

 

[bobinsd]

I don't understand the "over 50 without a permit" comment. I'm 66 but have a drivers license.

I would fly out from CA to be a part of any search...nice calm, warm water. Yessss...

 

[S.S.Tupperware]

This is quite interesting... If the level of sand rose 15 20 feet, Turtle mound must have been taller. There is some high land behind our condo that I have found some interesting things... i just might take a walk out there with the MD. I might be pissin in the wind, but who knows.. as well as some traversable marshes. There might have been some sand blown in, washed in, but I imagine sea level has been the same for the last 500 years? I do know of a creek where an old Spanish sword was found at low tide...

 

[FISHEYE]

Cornelius,

Just ship the detector with fed-x or ups.Insure it for what its worth or how much you will lose in gold if they happen to lose it.

 

[Attila]

Old Man,

If you look at signumops post he has the directions to the "Princple town of the AIS"

"The pine woods continue farther, and by a mangrove swamp on the east side at a distance of one and a half leagues is the principal town of (p. 13) this bay [Ais].34 The bay

proceeds on to the south as I have said [?], for a distance of two leagues and then veers to

the east and flows out to sea over the Bar [of Ais]."

If you assume the "Bar of Ais" is the old Indian River Inlet, which most archeolgist do. That puts the main town 2 Spanish leagues north or roughly 7 miles from what was the old Blue Hole cut on the old Indian River inlet.

That is Real Close to your location.

I wish you luck

 

[old man]

Old Man,

If you look at signumops post he has the directions to the "Princple town of the AIS"

"The pine woods continue farther, and by a mangrove swamp on the east side at a distance of one and a half leagues is the principal town of (p. 13) this bay [Ais].34 The bay

proceeds on to the south as I have said [?], for a distance of two leagues and then veers to

the east and flows out to sea over the Bar [of Ais]."

If you assume the "Bar of Ais" is the old Indian River Inlet, which most archeolgist do. That puts the main town 2 Spanish leagues north or roughly 7 miles from what was the old Blue Hole cut on the old Indian River inlet.

That is Real Close to your location.

I wish you luck

Attila, I'm one of those "nuts" that is up north freezing his ass off. I don't get down to FL more then a few times a year, so I gave the site location to Aquanut. I wish him luck and for those of you that haven't already guessed. I was using a Geman PI unit that is sold in the US. I bought mine in FL and KellyCo. I used a one meter coil when I got the readings.
Cornelius built his own and his is probably a better unit knowing how well Cornelius does things.

 

[inletsurf]

If you were a Ais indian back in the day.Where would you bury/hide your treasure where no man woman,child or Spaniard would be able to find it and why.Keep in mind that there wasn't much on the barrier islands and they weren't as high as they are today.(they were 15-20 feet lower back then)So if a hurricane came to town with the storm surge the water would wash over the land and into the indian river.


I would have buried mine on the mainland far from the river and prying eyes.

If I were a savage indian with a lot of heavy precious metal goodies and no way to efficiently carry it, I think that would be too long of a walk and swim among other "hostile" envious indians. I don't believe they knew how to put a price or trade value on gold, as they were completely ign-rant to goldsmithing and even what gold was used for in the civilized world. What were they going to trade for? Palemetto berries and fish probably. I believe the treasures of most value to them were weapons, clothing, forks, etc. I would suspect they would bury the gold nearby and bury it quick before anyone else finds it, and to give them time to figure out what the hell it was really worth to them and what to do with it.

 

[zepher]

Fisheye, that fossil finger bone is interesting. There is some amazing ice age history in the area. Fossil human remains have been found with animals extinct since the last ice age. There's a group who would be interested in your find - http://www.oviasc.org/. Someone recently found a bone with a mastodon carved on it which is considered the oldest carving or art in the western hemisphere. I read one study that described a giant human skeleton locked in a battle with a ground sloth.

 

[Southern_Digger]

Saw this thread for first time and found it interesting. I have searched much along the west side of the river, opposite wreck site beaches and have found evidence of the Ais. First area I searched was at Jupiter. After I failed to get approval to dive the wreck at Jupiter Inlet in 1977, I began volunteering as the archeologist for both the DuBois Historical Society and the Loxahatchee Historical Society. Between 1978 and 1980, in addition to my search and subsequent digs on the Loxahatchee Battlefield and the Fort Jupiter site; both Bessie DuBois and Ana Minear would call me to come up from Ft. Lauderdale and inspect various middens in and near DuBois Park; as well as a few sites west of the NW Fork of the Loxahatchee. Most often, I did not disturb them and my advice was to leave them alone and preserve them. Unfortunately, some next to the park were taken down for residential construction. One such midden which was taken down in part, I was asked to search. It was located south of the current marina, and there I found a few rifle parts that dated at the turn of the century. Across the front of the property at 35-40 centimeters I found the old railbed to the Celestial Railroad. This was the place where hunters would embark to hunt the woodland between Jupiter and Juno. What does this have to do with the Ais? Someone on this thread commented that the Ais may have sought treasure coins from the wreck beaches. Another commented that the Ais had no interest in such. I agree with the latter. Remember, when Jonathan Dickenson was captured and held captive along Jupiter Inlet, the Ais took his specie, scattered and buried it in the fields around there village, supposedly as a formal offering.

Further north, the only Spanish evidence I saw recovered was a 1795 1 reale, found west of the river aside an oak which also produced scattered pottery. The coin was holed, and most likely worn by a Seminole--not the Ais. Also north of Jupiter along A1A near the beach access opposite Round Island, I hiked into a hammock west of A1A finding iron pieces which I believed was from an 1800's sailing vessel. The site was thick in vegetation and I had to use a machete to create paths-the mosquitoes were horrendous therein. I returned about 5 years later and found a roadbed constructed to the hammock and a house being constructed. The owner informed me the University of Maryland did an archeology dig on property and found the hammock was an early Ais village. I would certainly like to get a copy of the arch. report on this site but do not know if such will be made available to the public. I suspect historical elements, from the wrecks may have been found there.

While researching for my book on Ft. Jupiter History (publ 1992), I purchased copies of the 1840's and 1850's surveyor field journals. In one, they followed a line due north where it intersected at Hell's Gate. Once they crossed the river, they found an ancient settlement growing up in the vegetation and trees. This was the old Spanish Mission site on Jupiter Island and members of the Pennock family showed me the location. So, in 1987, a friend and I decided to search on the west side of the river opposite the mission site in hopes of finding colonial evidence. Other than one small broken piece of pewter, we found numerous pieces of plain and check-stamped pottery. Then, the site was freshly cleared for construction and became the community of Indian Hills.

Now, I also hiked much land west of Indian River at and near Ankona. I found one small midden in the front yard of a homeowner and he asked me to dig into it to see what I could find. Of course, it was totally undistubed, in its natural state, and I talked him into preserving the site and not let anyone distrurb it as it may be a burial. Further north along the Savannah's I did find a midden that was disected by the old Flagler Railroad and the midden had exposed, broken clay jug. When I went into the vegetation to take a closer look, I disturbed more than one rattlesnake, so we left that alone and I never collected samples of the clay vessel. I did find some prehistoric evidence of the Ais in several places west of the river in the area of Oslo. One such item, a piece of brass, appears to be shaped somewhat like an amulette, with the top broken away. However, I am not so sure that may actually be a Seminole artifact. Don't have a photo of it readily available, however, I do have another interesting piece (below).

Last, when I searched the treasure coast with my old Bounty Hunter 3 in 1971, on the beach I found a short piece of blackened end socket to what appears to be a human legbone--believe I found it just north of the old real eight cabin where the museum is now situated. I kept it giving consideration that it may be from one of the shipwreck victims. Now, years later, knowing black midden sand has washed onto the beach just north of the museum, It is more practical that the bone is actually prehistoric.

Interesting fired bone found on a small oak hammock west of Indian river--the end shape leads me to believe it was designed to serve as a shaft starightener for making arrows. Also, a piece of pottery--your comments appreciated

World War 2 button found on same hammock as prehistoric item

 

[bigscoop]

An Ais Indian Treasure Mystery

Imagine, if you can, millions of dollars of gold and silver and handcrafted jewelry from Mexico randomly scattered about the east-central coast of Florida. But you don’t have to imagine it because this tale of lost treasure is one of those rare lost treasure tales that’s absolutely true.

From the mid-1500’s to the late 1700’s historical accounts tell us that hundreds of ships became stranded and lost along this hostile and dangerous stretch of cost, many of those ships loaded with Inca and Mayan gold and silver, precious stones, and other valuable cargoes. This stretch of coast was known as the Coast of Ais, or the Province of Ais, and many of these lost ships were routinely looted by these unpredictable and hostile Indians. But it’s what became of these treasures that is the main focus of this writing.

The Ais Indians were a society of towns, each town having its own chief and subordinate leaders, all of these subject to a single king who generally resided in the main capital town. So it was much like what we have in our own culture today with a city council, a mayor, and a governor that ruled over the entire province. And much like our routes of travel these individual towns were connected land trails and passages by water by which products of trade and tribute were transported throughout the entire province. And all of this is important to our understanding of just how all of that looted treasure and other merchandise became so widely scattered about in this east-central section of Florida, and beyond.

Historical documents and first hand accounts only serve to further enforce the credibility of this tale of lost treasure, just a few of those I will offer you now. (I won’t elaborate further on who these people were as they can be easily searched online.)

Hernando D’Escalante Fontaneda 1575; “The country of the kings of Aos and Jeaga is very poor. It contains neither gold nor silver mines, and to tell the truth, it is only the sea which enriches it since many vessels laden with precious metals are shipwrecked there….” And he goes on to say, “That he was only a sailor on of the shipwrecked vessels of the feet, and ignorant of the fate of the others until he had talked with the Indians who went armed to the coast of Ais and returned with very considerable riches in the form of ingots of gold, sacks of Spanish coins, and quantities of merchandise.” And also this, “I will say no more now on this subject, but proceed to speak of the wealth which the Indians found in bars of gold and Mexican jewelry belonging to the shipwrecked passengers, amounting to more than a million. The chief retained the best part of it for himself and divided the remainder among the Indians of Ais, of Jaega, of Guacata, of Mayajuaca, and of Mayaca.”

John Sparks, chronicler of Hawkin’s voyage; “and how they came of this gold and silver the Frenchman knew not as yet, but by guess, who having traveled to the southwest of the cape (Canaveral), and having found the same dangers by means of sandy banks, as we also have the same, and there finding masts which were the wrecks of Spaniard coming from Mexico, judged they had gotten treasure from there.”

Laudonniere; “…the greatest part of these riches, washed, as they said, out of Spanish ships which were commonly cast away in this straight.”

Menendez (his meeting with the head chief of Ais in 1565); “he was very much pelted in various colors and he wore on his brow a piece of gold which weighed more then five pesos and his principle Indians wore similar ornaments, the metal for which had apparently been obtained by the looting of the wrecks of Spanish treasure ships.”

The above historical observations and writings are just a few of the many accounts that continue to support this true tale of lost treasure. There exist evidences of many ships along the Ais coast, this including the ships of the 1554, 1563, 1618, 1622, 1634, and 1715 treasure fleets. In addition to the ships of these flotas, there are many other accounts of ships along the Ais coast, others with credible evidences that make them suspect, all of these together totaling perhaps as many as a hundred or more between the mid-1500’s and the late 1600’s. Johnathan Dickinson’s vessel, the Reformation, was wrecked there in 1696 along with the Mantwich and his account of his travels among the Indians up the Ais coast to St. Augustine is well documented, the Indians still hostile and actively conducting their looting operations. So roughly 150 years of this continuous shipwreck looting by these coastal Indians.

Just how much treasure was actually looted we can only guess but in just one first hand account we learn of “over a million pesos in ingots of gold, silver, sacks of coins, and Mexican jewelry” and this account only represented “a portion” of what was actually taken in that single event. But the real question for us today is, “where is all of this treasure today?”

No doubt a great deal of this treasure is buried under asphalt and concrete, the coast of Florida, including the old marshlands and mangroves, now surrounded by the swiftly progressing advances of modern man. The coastlines are also eroding and the older surfaces continuing to move deeper and deeper below the layers of a continual growth of decayed and new earth. Using archaeological summaries as a guide we can quickly discover that many of the period relevant items they have recovered are coming from depths of between two and four feet, this including silver and gold coins from the period and other items from these same precious metals that have been hammered into ornamental wears by the Indians in question. So very-very clearly these looted treasures are still out there and likely in good number, though also just as likely to be randomly scattered about a very vast area of east-central, central, and south Florida. However, from all of the documents and accounts I have research it is also likely that the vast majority of it is likely confined to the Ais controlled coastal regions of east-central.

Unlike Oak Island, where there exist no provenance that this location was anything other then an old mineral mine, this Ais Indian treasure tale has mountains of actual documentation to serve as that provenance in conforming the existence of these valuable and historical treasures. And while the effected landscapes have been greatly infringed upon by modern man’s advances, thus rendering these locations inaccessible, there still exist those locations where these ancient treasures might still be discovered, this due to the nature in which these treasures took legs and traveled and the nature in which they were hidden. Today we have the technology to go looking for these treasures, if only searching for them one piece at a time, or one small cache at a time.

There isn’t much in the existing records to indicate that any significant portion of these looted treasures were ever recovered despite the Spanish efforts to do so. The most I’ve ever come across was 100 pieces of eight that was recovered from an Ais chief near St. Luci inlet, other then this it appears that most of the Spanish recovery efforts proved fruitless in regards to the gold and silver that was looted. And as we continue to research these accounts further that appears to be very good reason as to why the Spanish had such little success.

Simply put, the Ais were never tamed and they often went to extraordinary measures to hide their plunder for a number of reasons. Most accounts talk of how these treasures were often buried in secret by their new owners to hide it from the Spanish and even their own people, one also has to consider that the Spanish simply didn’t possess the manpower to chase down all of these treasures that were being so widely distributed throughout the region. There is evidence that some trading between the Indians and the Spanish did take place, items like tobacco, knives, and mirrors being offered by the Spanish in exchange for looted items but there is no evidence that this was even remotely successful, and in fact, quite a bit of evidence exist proving just the opposite.

The Calusa:

It’s worth noting that the Caluas Indians were no different, so for those of you with access to lands in the Calusa territories you might also want to consider the possibilities. Here os just one first hand account in regards to these same treasures being looted and dispersed by the Calusa, another hostile Indian nation in southern and western coastal Florida that was likewise never tamed.

Le Moyne, 1564; While speaking of King Calos in the Martyrs (Florida Keys) after the rescue of shipwrecked survivors who had lived with these Indians; “They also reported that he possessed a great store of gold and silver, and that he kept in a certain village in pit not less than a man’s height in depth, and as large as a cask, and that if I could make my way to that place with a hundred arquebusiers (muskets) they could put all of that wealth my hands besides which I might obtain from the richer of the natives. They said further, that, when the women met for the purpsoe of dancing they were hanging at their girdles flat plates of gold as large as quoits, and in such numbers that the weight fatigued and inconvenienced them in dancing, and that the men were similarly loaded. The greater part of this wealth, they were of the opinion, came from Spanish ships of which numbers are wrecked in that strait, the rest from the trade between the king and other chiefs in the neighborhood. Calos is on the river forty or fifty miles beyond the promontory of Florida that looks toward the south.”

So while this writing is mainly focused on the Ais territories it is also worth noting that this looting of shipwrecks wasn’t isolated to just the Ais region, the Ais region just providing the vast majority of documented accounts and posing the greatest amount of looting and concern throughout the 150 year period (mid-1500’s to about 1700) in question.

Sir John Hawkins, The Hawkin’s Voyages; “It seemeth they had estimation of their gold and silver, for it is wrought flat and graven, which they wear about their necks, others some make round like a pancake, with a hole in the middle to bolster up their breast withal, because they think it a deformity to have great breast.”

To help further illustrate the vast amounts of treasure that came to these shores here is a brief list of some actual documented “Spanish” wrecks upon this coast (there are more, including more galleons). Also, keep in mind that during the period in question much of this sailing was done using landmarks which means that these were mostly “coastal voyages” and that these ships were extremely vulnerable to the notorious shallow shoals and bars and that storms easily pushed them into these shallows. There is no doubt that the Indians had access a great many of these vessels and their cargoes. (The dollar values referenced below are period references and these amounts would actually be many-many times higher today.)

1530- A book written in Spain mentions a large number of ships lost near Cape Canaveral.
1555- Several ships of the Flota de Tierra Firme (Spanish treasure fleet) were lost south of Cape Canaveral.
1556- Nueva Espana Flota (Spanish treasure fleet) was lost at the bar of Ais, it was reported that the Ais recovered over a million in pesos in bars of gold, silver and jewelry from Mexico.
1563- The galleon, La Magdalena wrecked bearing 50 tons of silver bullion, 170 chest of worked silver, 1100 pounds of gold bullion, and jewelry from Mexico, at Cape Canaveral.
1564- 2 ships lost north of Cape Canaveral.
1571- Two galleons, the San Ignacio and Santa Maria were lost south of Cape Canaveral with $2,500,000 pesos in treasure.
1572- Two Spanish Ships at Cape Canaveral.
1573- One Ship off Cape Canaveral.


Summary

There are many such documents and accounts, more then enough to substantiate the existence of these looted treasures within these referenced regions of Florida. We also have archaeological evidences of the existence of these period correct treasures within the cultural and social regions of the referenced Indians with no real effort towards the recovery of just these items, the recovery of these evidences simply being the products of happenstance of a much broader historical investigation.

Yes, the challenges are extreme and the odds are very long, also keep in mind that most of the period correct discovers have come from depths of between 2 1/2 and 4 feet, well past that range of most metal detectors unless those target signatures are rather large.

Quick Reference Materials (Can be found online.)

Memoir of Hernando D’Escalante Fontaneda, 1575
A Survey OF Indian River Archeology, Florida by Irving Rouse, 1951
More Light on the Indians of the Ays Coast, Eugene Lyon, 1967
Spanish Contacts with the Ais (Indian River) Florida, Charles D. Higgs
Derrotero of Alvaro Mexia, 1605 (Translation by Charles D. Higgs)