Campsite of Salvage Minded Ais Indians?

[bobinsd]

Probably the wrong place to post this, but does anyone know where the Ais camped out? I've read where it was on the river side of the dunes, and archies dug down 3 feet in 1950s. With all the metal they (Ais) salvaged in the 15-1600s, I would think that the area might be ripe for a good MD hunt.

 

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[FISHEYE]

No more digging for the Ais.Unless you own property where they were.

 

[CanadianTrout]

Wow FISHEYE, that Ais village has really grown.

 

[stevemc]

I always thought up by Marineland around Turtle Mound was the heart of their territory.

 

[signumops]

The Ais camped on the barriers in the summer and on the mainland side of the Indian River Lagoon, or Merritt Island during the winter. In 1605, Mexia, sent by the governor of St. Augustine, mapped the coastal area from Matanzas south to Hobe sound and noted quite a few Ais settlements along the mainland shore and around the Cape (Canaveral) as well as on Merritt Island proper. For instance, Indian Harbour Beach was named for the small bay where the Ais lived in the summer, meanwhile, moving directly to Eau Gallie, across the river, in winter.

Here are Mexia's notes as translated by Charles Dana Higgs...

The ENGLISH TEXT Version of Alvaro Mexia’s Derrotero

Written in 1605 and translated by

Charles D. Higgs



(p. 3) A handy and useful guide which describes truthfully in every detail the rivers,

channels, lagoons, woodlands, settlements, harbors, shoals, and camps from St. Augustine to the Bar of Ais.



Having passed the Bar of Jean Ribault,4 go toward the beach, and east and west with

the pines of Marques (sic),5 and, climbing up through the clefts in the dunes,6 the head of



4 Varreta de Ju Riciao [Jean Ribault]: Lowery's note here says. “.i.e. Matamas Inlet." He is in error. There were two inlets in this vicinity, one.half league apart, as Menendez Marques tells us. Mexia's map shows definitely that he designates as above the lower one, later closed, which was known as “Penon Inlet."



5 Pinos del marques; Menendez Marques refers to ten tall pines in his sailing directions, by which you can identify the Port of St. Augustine from out at sea (Connor, 1925, I:327). While Mexia is here too far south for these, the name may have been popularly applied to others of the species in that vicinity. following their identification with Menendez Marques.



6 Terrontera: a break in a mountain. This might be misspelled for torontera, the heap of earth left by a freshet, or torrontera, a ravine or gully. However, Mexia uses the term throughout, and in its contextual significations he seems to mean dunes.



the River of Nocoroco7 can be seen. Continuing along the beach, at one half league distance behind the said dunes, you will find a fresh-water lake which from afar looks like a marsh of rushes. Water must be taken here, for unless it is hidden or undiscovered there is none in any other part of the entire coast.



(p. 4) Continuing your way for a distance of five leagues a footpath is taken through the

gullies, traversing a wood of live-oaks, and you emerge at a bay 8 which is called Nocoroco, where canoes are boarded. This bay has a gravelly bottom 9 and there is a cove on the west side, and on the flats of the said cove are four villages.l0 On the point of land extending on the south is the town of Nocoroco.11,12 A dense woods of live oaks runs along the west side of the bay, and along the east shore stretches a thorny thicket.



Following along the high land13 on the west for a distance of one and one half leagues,

there is another town which is called Cacaroy, and in the same woodland, three leagues

distant is the town of Cicale, toward which the river flows with more volume and abounding in channels (p. 5). [The one to take] is that one which runs north and south up to one half league from Cicale, where it enters some mangroves through which it flows confined in many small meanderings for a distance of a league, where you emerge at the Bar of Mosquitos.14



A bayou, through which you go, continues in the mangroves along the west shore, and

you stand in along the western highland until you come out at Caparaca.15 Midway a little fresh-water river 16 discharging from the hinterland, flows in, and at the mouth of this river there are many clusters of huts of those [Indians] who are a day's journey from Mayaca, a town situated on the River San Mateo.17



7 Nocoroco: This bay was formerly the headwaters of what we now know as the Halifax Creek and River.



8 This live-oak grove is still extant-a verdant oasis in the arid beach terrain.



9 The reference to the bottom of the Bay of Nocoroco as "gravel-bottomed" is very interesting. At present it is very mucky, but it is conceivable that filling had not progressed so far in Mexia's time. The gravel, no doubt, is coquina rock (Anastasia formation) which is plentiful in the area. The point on which Nocoroco stands is co-

quina. John W. Griffin.



10 The sand bank on the cove at the Bay of Nocoroco on which hamlets stood is probably the sand ridge, which at the present time is some little distance behind a marsh. A brick floor, probably dating from the British period (1763-83), covered by muck exists along the shore of this marsh. The amount of muck below the floor is roughly equivalent to that above, so that it is perfectly conceivable that in 1605 there was no muck there,

and no marsh, This is not out of line with the rate of growth of peat in the Everglades as stated by Davis (1946).

John W. Griffin.



11 The town of Nocoroco was on the point where the Tomoka River enters, and on the site later known as Mt. Oswald.



12 The site of Nocoroco has recently been excavated by the Florida Park Service, and a report on it has been published (Griffin and Smith, 1949). John W. Griffin.



13 Cordillera: This designates a chain, usually of mountains. In an older Spanish usage it applied to a long, straight elevated tract of land-which with less exaggeration might apply to the Florida topography and certainly to the continuous low ridge on the west side of the Indian River. This is merely an old beach-line.



I4 The mangroves had apparently not penetrated as far north of Mosquito (Ponce de I.eon) Inlet in Mexia's time as at present. Even in my memory there has been further northward penetration of mangroves along the Halifax River, undoubtedly related to the silting in of the river. John W. Griffin.



15 Caparaca: This was on the site now occupied by New Smyrna.



16 Fresh-water river: This was probably Turnbull's Bay and Creek.



17 River San Mateo: The St. Johns.



The mangroves continue along the east shore, and on the west the same woodland.

You navigate the canoes through this bayou so as not to pass over the Bar of Mosquitos

(which you take in going to Surruque). The bayou runs to the south (p. 6) for the distance

of one-half league, where it makes a bend and turns to the west, leading past the woodland wherein stands the town of Caparaca. There the Nocoroco terminates.



All the way through the mangroves the river proceeds to the southeast, and on the

eastern shore there are gullies, palm-groves, and clumps of low evergreen oaks. There are

frequent small meanderings and it passes close by the buhlo18 which is named for Surruque,19 which is a mound of oyster shells and low shrubs. At the foot of this mound the Indians launch their canoes to go out to sea.



From there on (as I have said) the river, with many turnings, veers to the southwest

for a distance of one and one-half leagues until it issues into the Lake of Surruque.20 This river is all deep21 and navigable for small vessels of shallow draught (p. 7).



[Continuing] with the canoes, you quit the river and take a bayou which leads off on

the west shore. All along the before mentioned highland are hamlets and dense mangroves. This bayou will [be found to] stretch for a length (as measured by a good look backwards) of seven leagues up to where it leaves the said lake.



At a distance of one league is the town of Old Surruque on a mound. The said lake is broad and long. A channel runs through the middle, which I am informed by the Indians has three crossings in some parts, and where less there are two.



The said woodland ending, you follow a low land with a flat crown of scattered woods, and in back of this low land a high pine land can be seen, which is the mainland, over which [the people] of all this peninsula communicate with those [people] of the lagoons and the above mentioned River of San Mateo. They have their towns at Colucuchia, Pia, Chinianeayo, and Perguymolaud [which are] towns on the said river. Along the high ground are hamlets (p. 8) continuing for the distance of a league where there is the principal town of Surruque, and there the Cacique resides.



Along the east shore the mangroves continue and some low dunes where the sea dashes.

The lagoon (or lake) [of Surruque] with its town of Surruque is one-half league distant

west from the coast. This lagoon runs from northwest to southeast up to the town of Urri-

bia, which is-one and a half leagues distance from Surruque, and [at a place] where the land forms two points-[one] on the east side in the mangroves, and [the other] on the mainland. On this [latter] point is the town of Urruya.22



18 Buhio: A West Indian (Arawak) word, for a native hut. It came to be applied to anything from the family dwelling to the large communal lodge which, according to Bishop Calderon, would accommodate 2,000 to 3,000 people (Wenhold, 1936).



19 Surruque Mound: Later Mt. Tucker on English maps, and now known as Turtle Mound. This mound rises fifty feet above the beach, and was always a conspicuous landmark. It has been charted on Florida maps since 1564.



20 Lake of Surruque (or lagoon of Surruque): now Mosquito Lagoon.



21 Hondable: meaning "soundable." From our knowledge of the Indian River and the various localities wherein he applies the term, we feel that "deep" is the best translation.



22 Urruya: Mexia spells the name of this town as uRuya. Similarly suRug for Surruque. The capital R was used often for the double letter, as, in turn, the double letter was used to indicate capitalization, viz. rrio for Rio in this MSS. This town is spelled Urubia a little farther on, and in the "Tanto de las Diligencias" correspondence it appears as Oribia.



From there on the lagoon widens out and runs north-northwest to south-southeast for

a distance of two leagues, where it terminates. On the west shore on the flats made by the

end [of the lagoon] is a village called Suyagueche.



Directly opposite, in a north and south direction, two entrances open through a man-

grove swamp which serrates the lagoon. Take the opening on the west, and at a little dis-

tance they reunite and proceed, with many turns and meanderings, all the (p. 9) way south

easterly through open flat lands with scattered mangroves.



This channel extends three leagues from the entrance to the gullies about the beach, where it terminates, This terminus is between the points of the cape23 and there the canoes are portaged for the length of the distance between the said dead-end and the [end] of a little river which comes out of the big bay of Ais. This haulover the Indians call Potopotoya. The end of the river which comes out of the said bay approaches so close to the sea that there is not more than thirty pasos24 from one water to the other.



This river is all gravel bottomed and in the middle are many mangrove keys, and at a distance of a land-league is an island of oaks and small live-oaks. In the whole channel there is no other islet of live-oaks save this one. Here is the town of Ulumay, the first one of the Province of AiS.25 In back of and adjacent to this town there are many camps (p. 10).



Following this gravelly-bottomed water-course which flows north and south for one half league from the town, [you find] that it diminishes and there are two openings. The one

which leaves on the left-hand runs to the southeast, and the other to the southwest, and

both reunite at a league's distance. In the channel which runs to the southeast, where it

joins with the aforementioned of the town of Ulumay, there are many other encampments

in the winter-time, as occur throughout all the high ground of the coast. This is a province

called Ulumay.



Near these two channel mouths you enter a very wide lagoon called Saboboche,26

where low-lying land runs along the east shore for two leagues. Then follows a high pine

land, with scattered clumps of wood. These pine woods continue for five leagues and then end (p. 11). Then a mangrove point extends for a quarter of a league.



On the western shore there is another narrower lagoon which ends after running north

for a league's distance from the said town of Ulumay.



On the east bank at the mouth of this lagoon is the town of Savochequeya, from which

the lagoon 27 takes its name.



A thicket with scattered low pines runs along the west shore for two leagues, where it ends, and then mangroves and a tall palm-grove of that species called Royal 28 follow for a distance of a quarter of a league, where the lagoon ends. This lagoon runs north and



23 The cape: Canaveral. Perhaps by "between the points of the cape" Mexia refers to Canaveral proper and "False Cape."



24 Paso could mean either a pace, or step, or the Spanish paso which is the equivalent of 1.52 yards.



25 Province of Ais: In Spanish Colonial America a "province" designated a region of specific tribal domination, and generally took its name from that of the ruling cacique-



26 Lagoon of Saboboche: the Banana River.



27 Lagoon of Savochequeya: Newfound Harbor, the deep indentation at the southern end of Merritt Island. (See p. 190 above. I.R.)



28 Royal palm: Dr John C. Gifford, the eminent forestry expert, says that royal palms (Oreodoxa regia) are native to Florida and grew recently as far north as St. Augustine.



south, girdled by the aforesaid mangroves on the east and by a low mangrove swamp which is quite rocky on the west, where there is a narrow pass 29 which stretches for one-half league to flow out into the Great Bay of Ais. This narrow pass runs north and south, and at the mouth of its outlet in the winter-time is the town of Pentoaya. Directly opposite

(p. 12) on the western mainland is the same said town in the summer.30



This bay, which runs from north to south without a single turn, is very wide and deep.

Along the western highland runs a high pine growth with scattering patches of woods.

On the east shore are two little cone-shaped mounds,31 and from there on stretches a low

land with palm groves, dunes, and patches of chaparral and brush. This bay extends for a

distance of five leagues, girdled by the highland on the east [?] and there is a mangrove

swamp [?].32



There are two mangrove islets in the middle of the bay, one large and the other small,

beyond which the bay narrows and is shallow. At a distance of a league a little fresh water channel, which discharges from the hinterland, enters on the west shore.33



The pine woods continue farther, and by a mangrove swamp on the east side at a distance of one and a half leagues is the principal town of (p. 13) this bay [Ais].34 The bay

proceeds on to the south as I have said [?], for a distance of two leagues and then veers to

the east and flows out to sea over the Bar [of Ais].



The previously mentioned great bay [of Ais], from where the narrows of Pentoaya

issue, extends to the north much wider and deeper than toward the south,35 and along

the western shore there is a similar pine woods to that which runs along the west shore of

the lagoon of Ulumay, and which separates the two lagoons.



29 The narrow rocky pass at the southern tip of Merritt Island, where the Banana River joins the Indian River.



30 The site of the present Eau Gallie. It was the custom (as previously referred to in the vicinity of Ulumay) for these coastal tribes to winter on the islands, and with the advent of the mosquito and sand-fly season to move to the mainland, and usually inland.



Dr. Thomas Barbour tells in "That Vanished Eden" (1944b) of his boyhood and later digging in the mounds at these sites. He shows a photograph of the mound at the Banana River mouth site. (See above, pp. 151, 199. I.R.)



31 Cone-shaped mounds: Seven miles below Melbourne, on the island, there is quite an area of mounds and middens. Some down near the river are conical and one, especially, is conspicuous from several miles distance today. Much shell has been removed from this area for road construction so that the contour has doubtless changed since Mexia's day. The continuing topography is as he describes it. (See above, p. 1.06, I.R.)



32 Evidently there is an error and omission here. What he probably means is: high ground on the west and the mangrove swamp on the east, as usual.



33 Up to the time of construction of the drainage canals and the grade of the Florida East Coast Railroad, there was a sizeable stream entering at this point. Most of this water now flows into the Indian River through the Vero Beach "Spillway:' Mexia evidently missed the Sebastian River, which is not discernible from out in

the channel. This enters about ten miles above this point. (For an alternative interpretation, see p. 17° above I.R.)



34 Ais: The principal town and seat of the most powerful cacique of the east coast (Gov. Ca~ to the King, A.G.I. 54; 5; 9; in Lowery transcriptions). This has been located by various writers and cartographers all the way from the St. Lucie River to Canaveral. Most of them have placed it "back of Canaveral:' Mexia gives us a definite location. It was two leagues north of the Indian River Inlet. The old natural inlet was opposite St. Lucie and about two miles north of the present government cut at Fort Pierce. This places Ais just below Riomar, across the river from Vera Beach. At this point there is a very conspicuous and extensive area of mounds and midden material. (See above, pp. 219-20 I.R.)



35 The Great Bay of Ais, or the upper reaches of the Indian River, from Eau Gallie up past Titusville.



Return by way of the bay just mentioned, and take the said Pentoaya narrows, and

do not navigate the great bay because west of and in back of the town of Ulumay it is a

lake so large that land is out of sight, and little though the wind may be, it kicks up a sea

[?], and is very deep. According to the Indians bottom cannot be found in places.



For the above reason, and because there are no inhabitants [on it] do not navigate the

said bay and lagoon (p. 14), but take the above mentioned narrows up to the town of

Ulumay, and thence the previously described water-course, which runs northwest with

many small meanderings (some to the south and others to the north), until it debouches

into the said large lagoon.



Where the said lagoon peters out measure off a distance of one league around and [into]

a bay that runs to the north. On the west the before mentioned pine woods continue, and

on the east the tall mangroves. At a distance of four leagues there is a creek running east

and west with the town of Urruya. There disembark in some live-oak savannahs. From the landing place on the bay to the lagoon it is 1200 pasos. It is here that the Indians portage their canoes from one water to the other.



The said bay 36 runs to the north until it is in line, northeast and southwest, with the town of Surruque, where it terminates. Here there is a little fresh-water river entering from the hinterland through a long cut at the northwest (p. 1'1). This is as far as the canoes can come and is the portage. Briefly you disembarl{ [reimbark?] at Urruya, and taking the Surruque lagoon, and continuing the route north in the order given, you come to the city of St. Augustine.



ALVARO MEXIA

(There is a Rubric.)



36 Mexia is again referring to the Great Bay of Ais, or the upper Indian River, and the haulover into Mosquito Lagoon. This portage was in the vicinity of the present haul-over canal on the Intracoastal Waterway, at the hamlet of Al!enhurst

 

[mad4wrecks]

There are still places to find indian artifacts in the Sebastian area.....Shell Pit Rd., along the banks of the Sebastian River, in the Indian river opposite the Kroegel mound, and even along certain sections of beaches.

Of course, please check into the legalities of all of this.

 

[FISHEYE]

In 1991 i found a petrified index finger bone from a giant human on vero beach.Could be 2-10,000 years old.I learned a few things about the local anthropologists in vero beach.I called a few of them to tell them what i found.Their reply was to take it to the local police dept and give it to them so they can determine if the bone was from a murder victim.My thoughts.Florida caveman from 10,000 years ago,clubbed to death with a mastodon bone by jealous wife.If i would have given this bone to the local PD i would have never seen it again.Do they sell anthropologist degrees at walmart now?

 

[jeff k]

http://www.treasurelore.com/florida/ais.htm

 

[Attila]

See if you can locate a book called:
A Survey of Indain River Archeology, Florida
by: Irving Rouse

It's old late 40's, early 50's but it list all the indian sites along the indian river, both main land and beach side.
It's a big book with a lot of sites. You'll be looking for what they call the Late Malabar II period. This is the end of the AIS period when the spanish had contact with AIS.

You will also need a map from the 40's becuase he describes the locations as so many miles from certain cross roads.

For WARNING: Don't dig into the middens. Some are considered indian burial grounds and it is a federal offense.
Even though most have been destroyed be the government or housing and condos.

If you want to go metal detecting a site that is from the Spanish period, let me know.

 

[bobinsd]

Thanks Jeff. Higgs diggings at 27 49 24 were 14 mi north of the Vero Beach location, on the bluffs just east of Melba Island, wich appear to be reasonably unpopulated. That's where he put a center of activity. He doesn't say that it was a salvage area, however. But he didn't have a metal detector, either.

 

[Attila]

Thanks Jeff. Higgs diggings at 27 49 24 were 14 mi north of the Vero Beach location, on the bluffs just east of Melba Island, wich appear to be reasonably unpopulated. That's where he put a center of activity. He doesn't say that it was a salvage area, however. But he didn't have a metal detector, either.

That is part of Pelican Island National Wild Life Preserve.

 

[Attila]

Does any one have a good discriminating metal detector. I have a site that archeologist have determined was an AIS villiage during the Spanish period. A time period bell was discovered. They have released the site to be built on. The owner of the property is fully onboard with metal detecting the site. The problem is, I have a dual pi detector. The site was used by vagrants and has a lot of beer cans and junk buried.

If interested pm me, who knows might find a few coins.

 

[aquanut]

Attila,
The trouble with beer cans is they're made of aluminum and usually if you tune out aluminum, you tune out gold.
Silver is much easier to deal with... There are some guys better at discrimination than others. Much of the time it's the operator marching in tune with his machine. One of the best I know of on this forum that lives in my area is Treasure_Hunter. He usually hangs out in the Beachcombing section.
Aquanut

 

[old man]

Attila,
The trouble with beer cans is they're made of aluminum and usually if you tune out aluminum, you tune out gold.
Silver is much easier to deal with... There are some guys better at discrimination than others. Much of the time it's the operator marching in tune with his machine. One of the best I know of on this forum that lives in my area is Treasure_Hunter. He usually hangs out in the Beachcombing section.
Aquanut

John, I looked at the map near the top of this topic. The area I told you about with the 3 BIG non ferrous readings is within the area of that map.

 

[FISHEYE]

If you were a Ais indian back in the day.Where would you bury/hide your treasure where no man woman,child or Spaniard would be able to find it and why.Keep in mind that there wasn't much on the barrier islands and they weren't as high as they are today.(they were 15-20 feet lower back then)So if a hurricane came to town with the storm surge the water would wash over the land and into the indian river.


I would have buried mine on the mainland far from the river and prying eyes.

 

[old man]

If you were a Ais indian back in the day.Where would you bury/hide your treasure where no man woman,child or Spaniard would be able to find it.

In the water at Indian River !!!

 

[bobinsd]

Has anyone ever dropped a "fish" into IR? Does it work in shallow water?

 

[old man]

Has anyone ever dropped a "fish" into IR? Does it work in shallow water?

( YES ) Not a fish. but something that works finding non ferrous metal from the surface to the bottom. ( Not individual coins though )
And no it is not a long range locator. Within a 100 ft. I got three large readings of non ferrous metal. I didn't go down to find out what the metal was, Could have been a few cases of beer that someone dropped, but I doubt it.

 

[cornelis 816]

They say that a PI detector only will register ferrous objects . Well I got news for you . I built my own PI detector ( DBP2010 ) which I can adjust ( before I lower it into the water ) so it will dtect gold OR silver at quite some depth . Cornelius

 

[FISHEYE]

Metal detectors can be tuned just to find gold or silver.