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  1. #31
    do
    Sep 2006
    Dominican Republic
    418
    19 times

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    Hello Diver_Down,

    Thanks for the valuable information about The Third Turtle Club. I feel that there is still lot of mysteries and untold stories behind this strange coin/medallion. I am taking this coin and its back design as a personal challenge now! The more I am looking at the photo of the turtle, the more I am sure that it is no promotional piece or modern item. Ss a promotional piece is pretty ugly and roughly casted, it makes me no sense. As a credential or some mystery sign? Could be. It seems really not to be casted much later than the original coin was minted, I cannot be sure without having this coin in my hands, of course, just an opinion after closer examination of the photo. Therefore, I will do my best to try to locate the "mystery" fisherman and go and see him and the coin as well. I will try to pick up the whole story of the discovery of this coin from him. At the same time I will try to locate the original owners and shareholders of the Third Turtle Club to find out where did they take the logo from..... Any help in my personal quest will be highly appreciated. Just imagine that the coin was really some kind of old "secret society" credentials or, even better, some kind of treasure map. So, my friends, I have started treasure quest and everybody is welcome on board! The share of the booty will be the same as in old times according to the pirate´s law - one share for the participants, two shares for the Captain (I am the Captain, of course....).

    Regards to all mates and partners,
    Lobo

  2. #32
    us
    ARRG

    Feb 2005
    Sarasota, FL
    Whites Surfmaster PI Pro and Whites Surfmaster PI, Minelab Excal NY blue sword.
    1,949
    75 times
    Shipwrecks

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    Lobo, you asked how much an 8 reale cob was worth back in the 60s. My dad dealt with Real 8 Co, and did a lot of dealing with them from the beginning through to about the early 80s. I remember my dad in the middle of a cob cleaning session at home in the late 60s maybe early 70s, (this was an at least every month thing) and I asked him what these were worth, and he told me they (Real 8) would pay the workers a cob-normal worn but readable 8 reale cob, and it would be equal to $25. I assume that he traded old onion bottles and Wisteberg bottles for cobs at that rate of trade. I shuttled lots of shipwreck salvage items/bottles over to the Museum of Sunken Treasure in Cocoa Beach/Canaveral in the early 70s, and brought back lots of cobs. So, a cob in the late 60s was equal to about $25. But that price was at the source, and it would go up from there.

  3. #33
    us
    Apr 2010
    Dallas, Texas
    Excalibur II, Minelab Etrac, Ace 250k, Discovery TF-900
    576
    5 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobadilla
    Hello Diver_Down,

    Thanks for the valuable information about The Third Turtle Club. I feel that there is still lot of mysteries and untold stories behind this strange coin/medallion. I am taking this coin and its back design as a personal challenge now! The more I am looking at the photo of the turtle, the more I am sure that it is no promotional piece or modern item. Ss a promotional piece is pretty ugly and roughly casted, it makes me no sense. As a credential or some mystery sign? Could be. It seems really not to be casted much later than the original coin was minted, I cannot be sure without having this coin in my hands, of course, just an opinion after closer examination of the photo. Therefore, I will do my best to try to locate the "mystery" fisherman and go and see him and the coin as well. I will try to pick up the whole story of the discovery of this coin from him. At the same time I will try to locate the original owners and shareholders of the Third Turtle Club to find out where did they take the logo from..... Any help in my personal quest will be highly appreciated. Just imagine that the coin was really some kind of old "secret society" credentials or, even better, some kind of treasure map. So, my friends, I have started treasure quest and everybody is welcome on board! The share of the booty will be the same as in old times according to the pirate´s law - one share for the participants, two shares for the Captain (I am the Captain, of course....).

    Ahoy Cap'n!

    Aye...an here's hoping that your quest is a goodun! Argggghhh....!!

    Regards to all mates and partners,
    Lobo
    Live each day as if it were your last.  Soak in and seek love and light and shine it upon everyone who will accept it.  Value your true friends like gold as they are more rare and valuable than you may ever know.  Live in integrity with all men.

  4. #34
    um
    Dec 2008
    1,868
    894 times

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    In Robert Nesmith's first-rate Dig for Pirate Treasure (New York: 1958) there are several pages of coin photos and current market prices. Based on these, I would agree that the subject coin was probably a $25 piece (pun intended!) in the mid-1960's.

    Dr. Sedwick, Sr. wrote me that he thought a few of the coins in these photos were probably counterfeits. Without appearing to speak for him, I'm guessing those were "contemporary" and not modern fakes.

    There's a long tradition of using coins for jewerly. During the 19th Century one side of the coin would be ground flat, then engraved as a "love token." Some of these are beautiful.

    I think this coin is a nice promotional item for that resort - a neat souvenir.

    Good luck to all,

    ~The Old Bookaroo
    Do you have good books in good condition you are never going to re-read? Clean 'em out!
    Operation Paperback collects gently used books and sends them to American troops.

  5. #35
    us
    Dec 2010
    Fisher F75SE, Minelab Sovereign GT, Fisher1280X, Nautilus DMCIIB
    281
    1 times

    Inflation?

    I seem to recall gas was around 29 cents to the gallon in the early to mid 60s. At today's gas prices that would create a factor of 15X.

    15 times $25 = $375.

    What would you speculate the average 60s coin at $25 would bring on today's market, rarety aside?

    Just curious how the treasure coins are keeping up with inflation.

    Of course everything is, as the market will bear.


  6. #36
    us
    ARRG

    Feb 2005
    Sarasota, FL
    Whites Surfmaster PI Pro and Whites Surfmaster PI, Minelab Excal NY blue sword.
    1,949
    75 times
    Shipwrecks

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    That $25 value was at the finders place, and the next person would boost the price some, and so on, and I would assume at a retail store it would be $50 or more dollars back then. They really didnt go up much until the Atocha mother load was found and they really jacked the price way up, out into outer space. Plus they ruined all those Atocha cobs by tumbling them with needle bearings, instead of just cleaning them. And still sold a pile of them for super inflated prices. Sorry to get way off track there.

  7. #37

    Jun 2005
    106
    3 times

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    Possibly the best known promotion using shipwreck coins was by American Express. Amex used the Lucaya Beach Hotel treasure finds made by Jack Slack. They bought most of the find for a flat low rate, then made special presentation boxes and jewelry that were used to promote some of the first Amex gold cards.
    One sided coins were used for one sided jewelry, things like money clips and belt buckles come to mind. Amex had what was considered at the time to have outrageous high prices. Prices that were far above what coin dealers said they were worth. Remember, a coin dealers goal is to buy as low as possible then sell as high as possible. Amex blew the dealers away with their high prices. Amex reasoned that they were not selling to collectors but to people who could afford the best and were willing to pay for it. Authenticity certificates, presentation boxes and jewelry plus the coin and a high price were concepts far beyond that of the coin dealers and their traditional markets at that time. Amex had the ability to market in a way that no coin dealer could touch.
    While researching coins from Atocha, we realized that the Lucaya finds were similar in age and limited quantity ( in 1975 )....why not sell at the same prices that Amex had established. After all, Amex had sold out at their prices and not at a price dictated by someone else. Why couldn't we do the same thing ? Naturally the coin dealers went nuts again but the fact was, they were not our market.
    Over the years I have seen authentic as well as replica coins and jewelry used as promotions.... Disney, Atlantis resorts, Franklin mint and others.
    Marketing in new ways is fun and is only limited by imagination.

  8. #38
    us
    da book worm--researcher

    Feb 2007
    callahan,fl
    delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
    14,511
    762 times
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    my vote -- it is a --The Third Turtle club coin -- what with the triple capital T 's seems like a dead giveaway as a club promo piece of some sort * --still a way cool interesting find -- I'd love to have one myself. -- since I like cool and interesting and "differant" things --I just have to wonder if it was a real coin with the turtle logo added or a total "mock up piece" -- if a real coin wonder where it originally came from ? which shipwreck if any .

  9. #39
    um
    Dec 2008
    1,868
    894 times

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    IS: I think it would have been helpful to see a photograph of the edge. I'm in agreement with the idea that it's a genuine piece of eight with the turtle and silver under it welded to the coin. Perhaps the coin was polished flat first?

    Again - a shot of the edge might clear it up. Or, not...

    Good luck to all,

    ~The Old Bookaroo
    Do you have good books in good condition you are never going to re-read? Clean 'em out!
    Operation Paperback collects gently used books and sends them to American troops.

  10. #40
    do
    Sep 2006
    Dominican Republic
    418
    19 times

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    Hello everybody,

    My friend goes back to Haiti on a business trip in these days again. He promised me to try to locate "his" fisherman if he has time, and take other pictures of the coin, if the fisherman still has it. So let's wait, I am really curious. I still think that the reverse part of the coin with welded turtle is too ugly and too roughly made to be some kind of a gift or promotional item of any business or resort, but....who knows.....

    Regards to all,
    Lobo

  11. #41
    do
    Sep 2006
    Dominican Republic
    418
    19 times

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    Hi everybody,

    Great news concerning the "mystery coin"!

    Today afternoon my friend returned from Haiti and guess what....? He managed not only locate his fisherman but he also managed to buy the coin from him! I am green with envy...... I had it shortly even in my hands. We made some photos of edges of this coin/medallion and I am posting these photos here below the text. He told me he had went to see a jeweller and he was told that the mass of silver around the turtle and the turtle itself show damages of time that would exceed at least 100 years being in water or sand. If it is truth, it would mean that the coin could not be made as a promotional piece for some resort in the 60´s of the last century. The jeweller says that the turtle was casted to the reverse of the coin (original piece of eight, by the way) very long time ago. Look at these photos by yourselves and let me know what you think now!

    Regards,
    Lobo
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  12. #42
    us
    Apr 2010
    Dallas, Texas
    Excalibur II, Minelab Etrac, Ace 250k, Discovery TF-900
    576
    5 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    Wonderful Pictures!! It is fantastic that your friend found the fisherman again and was able to obtain it. Did he get any more information as to where it was initially found? Any other details of any kind?

    I have no idea why this piece fascinates me so much...lol...everything on it is just screaming to me "treasure map". The bases of the "T"s, shape and directions, the shapes of the ends of the turtles legs, the very obvious "pit" on the upper left quadrant...so much more.

    If the jeweler is right, this just might be something special...

    Live each day as if it were your last.  Soak in and seek love and light and shine it upon everyone who will accept it.  Value your true friends like gold as they are more rare and valuable than you may ever know.  Live in integrity with all men.

  13. #43
    us
    ScubaGecko

    Jun 2004
    Beaufort, SC
    Garrett Sea Hunter Mk II
    1,903
    9 times

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    Lobo,

    Not saying that the jeweler is incorrect, but I know of no way to accurately gauge the ware on a coin that would tell you its been in the water 40 years, 140 years or 340 years, especially after its been cleaned. The variables that could affect a coin in shore zone would certainly be drastically more than a coin that is in 30 feet of water. And we certainly know that coins and artifacts can be aged to give the appearanced of being old!

    In picture #3 from above I also see something that raises my suspicion on the right hand side of the rim of the coin. Maybe its just me, but I would be interested to see what others make of this image as well.

    After the finding of the exact logo from the Resort, I would have said the case was just about closed. I would do some more research on the resort and try to contact someone who may have some answers about the coin or logo. It is just too much of a match to be a coincidence.

    Robert



  14. #44
    us
    ARRG

    Feb 2005
    Sarasota, FL
    Whites Surfmaster PI Pro and Whites Surfmaster PI, Minelab Excal NY blue sword.
    1,949
    75 times
    Shipwrecks

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    Robert, do you mean what looks like casting flash? It does look like it was cast with a 2 piece mold at that edge. Maybe the turtle, which is obviously cast, has some extra silver there, and it was ground down. Plus with the finding of the resort's tTt symbol, I would think it was modern, but it is a nice item nonetheless. Maybe it had a bezel holding the coin, which is so popular these days. It does not harm the coin. And about the age, I agree that it cannot be figured, once the coin has been cleaned. The grain of sand could become lodged there in a week. Coralline grows fast ( I know none is on it,) but I have seen item that were dated/aged just by tiny bits of coralline on an item. It could have been put in a saltwater aquarium and had coralline grow on it. Or just left on a reef and had this. It is very hard to judge a worked/faked/etc, coins age, even if it did have some growth on it. If that coin was lost a year before, it would look just like as if it was there for 100 years. If in certain conditions. It could have coralline and even coral, it could have some wear, it could have some oxidation. I too am not sold on the jewelers findings, but it is still a nice item.

  15. #45
    do
    Sep 2006
    Dominican Republic
    418
    19 times

    Re: A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

    Hi Robert and SteveMC,

    I must admit that you are right about the determination of age of the coin. I just wrote in the state of high entusiasm what I was told by my friend about the statement of his jeweller. Thinking with "cold head", the possibility is, that somebody would have lost his medaillon of The Third Turtle Club in the ocean, probably on vacation in Tortuga Island. The logo is no doubt identical. Anyway, I will try to find the original owners of the Club just to find out where they took the design from.
    Thanks to all of you for your help!

    Regards,
    Lobo

 

 
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