A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

[Bobadilla]

Hello!

A friend of mine knows a fisherman in Haiti, who found a strange coin on a beach couple of months ago. My friend took a picture of it. It is no doubt legitime "Piece of Eight", but on the reverse somebody welded a figure of a turtle with triple "T" engraved on it. The turtle and its engravement seems to be original and my friend told me that there was even a small piece of sand bellow the head of the turtle. Why somebody would damage a coin that at those times represented 14 days of easy living? Turtle could mean the Island of Tortuga, located on the north of Haiti, the island that was the pirate base for couple of decades back in the 17th century. Triple "T",... man, I do not have a clue.... of course, my imagination tells me "T" as "Treasure", or may be "Triple Treasure", but what is your opinion guys? The photo of this coin is below.......

Regards to all,
Lobo

[old man]

Lobo, Great pictures of the coin. My only guess is part of what you already think it is, so that won't help. I would have went for a coin a Pirate had and he was home based in tortuga. Is the coin for sale I wouldn't mind owning it.

[lostcauses]

Appears to be two different items. The turtle and surrounding is a cast item, and the coin a stamped item. If it is the same item I would say a counterfeit coins in process.

[Mackaydon]

I wonder if Teddy Tucker lost it??
Don.....

[Bobadilla]

Thanks for your answers!
Lostcauses.....Appears to be two different items. The turtle and surrounding is a cast item, and the coin a stamped item. If it is the same item I would say a counterfeit coins in process. It is definitely one item, one coin. Yes, of course, you are right that the coin is a stamped and turtle is casted. Turtle was added later to the coin, but why....? I mean later, may be couple of years later, no more, the casting should come from the same period. My friend is an expert in coins, always looking for some to his collection, that´s why he found the fisherman. For me, there is absolutely no sense to put another piece of silver on a reverse of valid coin, pay for a work and mold just to have a counterfeit coin that cannot be used for normal purchases..... of course, it also crossed my mind that the coin could belong to a pirate who burried a treasure somewhere on Tortuga Island.... , may be "treasure is under three trees...." Who knows, but it seems interesting and strange item to me.....

I do not know the original owner in Haiti, only that it was somewhere on the northern coast, but if the coin would be for sale, my friend would have already owned it.....

Thanks one more time for the replies!
Lobo

[Au_Dreamers]

Isn't a turtle a standard symbol for treasure?
Can't remember if it's Spanish or Indian.

Not saying it isn't 3 t's but it also looks like a T super imposed over an M

So maybe the turtle is a symbol for treasure and the T-M is a clue to the location or who it belonged to.

I'd really go for that if it had a hole for a necklace!

I dunno just some thoughts that I had since looking at it last night.

[Bill]

Lobo,
Very interesting indeed. When I lived in Haiti, I had the opportunity to visit Tortuga many times. We were doing a lobster migration study for the government in 1974. That's when I found the wreck off shore of Treasure Cove. We traded with the locals for fruit and vegetables, as we were in the area for many days. I saw a lot of jewelry that the people had that had been made from silver coins. They told us that many silver pieces had been found in caves over the years, and they had fashioned some of them into the jewelry.

[ivan salis]

might be a modern custom made piece used a real cob front image with a custom back image * -- somebodys good luck piece

tommy tuckers , tortuga --treasure good luck item?

I like it

[rgecy]

I would have to say that the Turtle casting was added much later (recent). Look at the amount of ware on the stamped side and the coloration vs the turtle side.

Just my 2 bits!

Robert

[Bobadilla]

Robert,
Thanks for your opinion. I talked to my friend again about the different coloration and he told me that it was his fault during the hurried moment he was taking picture because of bad timing of camara flash. Haitian fisherman did not want him to take more pictures or details. He says the both sides are absolutely of the same color of silver. The amount of ware is huge in comparison with the stamped side, you are right, but there is supposed to be small grane of sand incrusted on the right side of the head of turtle (it can be even slightly seen on the photo), so it would mean that the coin in this form should have been in the ocean some time...... it could be some sort of good luck piece made recently using found coin on the beach, with maybe initials of the author of turtle, but it might be also genuine piece several hundred years old...... My friend told me he offered this fisherman good amount of money for this coin but he did not want to sell it. My friend is already back from Haiti and I doubt he would find this fisherman again if he goes there one day again.

Regards to all,
Lobo

[TheRandyMan]

Absolutely fascinating... Turtles were indeed used as markers for treasure.

http://www.treasurehuntersuniversity.com/turtle.html

It would surprise me if this was made as a piece of jewelry although I suppose that is a possibility. Quite a bit of work went into the construction and application of the turtle. Looking it over carefully, I wonder if the shapes created by the three T letters might indicate the shape of a bay or other geographical structure. The bases of the letters are not symmetrical in shape, especially the base of the smaller left side T, and could be directional markers. That small pit just to the left of the large T top horizontal cross member just screams "I was put here on purpose to show you a location" to me...

I would like to see some of the other pieces on the island that were modified into jewelry and see if there are any similarities with those pieces and this one. The connection between T for treasure and turtle is evident. Wish you had more information on where exactly it was found by the fisherman. I would like to study the geography in that area with Google earth a bit.

[Darren in NC]

Trinidad and Tobago is well known for its turtles who nest there annually. It attracts people from all over the world. While I doubt that it's related to the coin, it was the first thing that popped into my head. The Tortuga connection makes more sense. A local outlaw/pirate band's symbol from a bygone era?

[Silver Searcher]

Very interesting coin ... here's a Ancient Greek coin with similar Turtle, dating to the 6thc BC


http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore..._a_turtle.aspx

SS

[LM]

Yeah... If that went up for auction at a major house, there would be some $eriou$ fighting over it.

[FISHEYE]

Maybe the pirate that owned the coin was one of those that rode turtles.

[Au_Dreamers]

Maybe the pirate that owned the coin was one of those that rode turtles.

Hair?
...from my back

[Bobadilla]

Hi everybody,

Thanks for all your valuable opinion (Fisheye/John....you will never change, my friend .....). I will try to find out more about this item, especially where exactly it was found, it could be really some kind of treasure map....... But the only think my friend was told is, that fisherman had found it on the northern coast of Haiti. Tortuga Island is on the northern coast.......

Regards to all......
Lobo

[Zephyr]

To me, it looks like someone carved out a mold of the turtle part, then either placed it flat, poured a blob of metal into it and then placed the coin over the blob, or bound the coin to the mold and then poured metal into the void. (The first way would be easier. The T's could have been carved in later, too.) If the mold survived the first casting, then several of these could possibly have been made. A lovely piece nonetheless. Too bad it can't talk. Would love to hear the stories it could tell....

[LM]

I wonder if it isn't a credential?

All manner of groups, gangs and organizations throughout history have used custom medallions and markers as documents to accredit the bearer with some kind of title or verification. A messenger being sent on a long voyage to meet someone far away might bring with them a marker to present upon arrival so the receiving party knew who they were, from where they were sent, etc. This is in the same vein of logic as to why police officers wear badges. I belong to a 'club' that issues identity medals to its members, even today.

Whatever that thing is, it's fascinating as hell and beyond pleasing to look at. I sure hope whatever history lies behind it can be determined.

[Trembull]

Mouse over both sides of the coin in the first link

http://compare.ebay.com/like/2607649...=263602_324952

http://www.snible.org/coins/hn/aegina.html