salvage operation at Guaymas

Digger54

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Dec 6, 2010
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Don Jose de La Mancha,

I truly feel you should consider putting your experiences to paper. You have a gift for story telling and your memories should be commited to text before they are lost to time.

I really appreciate folks like Signumops, Old Bookaroo, Piratediver and countless others for sharing their recommended reading lists particularly for folks like me that are late for the game; but I really enjoy reading first hand accounts of the early days.

Thanks for staying the course.

Happy Fathers day to all.
 

Salvor6

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Don Jose, if you don't write your book and document all your experiences, a great deal of history will be lost when you pass.
 

OP
OP
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Nov 8, 2004
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Gentlemen I thank you both, but my writing is nowhere near professional quality, but I hope that it keeps you interested. If so, I also have posted on land salvage . Maybe a ghost writer? ORO has been lax.

Go to --> http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,403112.0.html

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. do you suppose that Castro's agent trying to get me to fly PBY-5 As from the Yucatan peninsula to Cuba would qualify as a sea story and be acceptable in here? After all it 'is' an amphibious aircraft heheh.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Unicorn

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Nov 18, 2007
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These stories have been sooo interesting and fun to read Don Jose. I am pleased to see that many of you think that they should be in book form. Maybe if Don Jose feels he cannot write them himself ( wrongly in my opinion) A ghost writer may suddenly appear in this thread and offer to do them for him..'hint'...'hint' at little or no expense at all :icon_thumleft:, a percentage of royalties perhaps. :read2: I am sure it would be a best seller, don't you all think?
Thank you Don Jose. :icon_sunny:........ :hello:


'U'
 

gord

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Mar 30, 2005
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Whichever is going to take the longest - we're like a bunch of kids who don't want to be told that it's time to turn the light out and go to sleep.
 

Digger54

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Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp said:
HIO shall I continue with the Castro thingie or the continuation of the salvage story on land?

Don Jose de La Mancha

:sign13: Both.
 

poorhunter78

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Which ever you desire, But Please leave the pins & needles Alone! ;D
 

OP
OP
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Nov 8, 2004
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Any time luv , my pleasure. slow sexy Tango or a similar waltz sigh

Next story of a lost, cold, swabby in the fleshpots of the Orient is dedicated to you. you represent the antithesis of the gal in the story.

Don Jose de la Mancha
 

truckinbutch

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Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp said:
Any time luv , my pleasure. slow sexy Tango or a similar waltz sigh

Next story of a lost, cold, swabby in the fleshpots of the Orient is dedicated to you. you represent the antithesis of the gal in the story.

Don Jose de la Mancha
Please don't tease . Write , please :laughing7:
 

OP
OP
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Nov 8, 2004
14,582
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Bien venidos mi amigos "
It started in the winter of 46. We were curious on the military status of the Tsingtao - Tsinan rail road so decided to make a navigation flight following it.. We didn't realize that we were creating an international incident, with just was effectively a joy ride.

On the morning of Christmas eve, we left Tsingtao in one of our B-26's in the early morning in beautifully clear, but coooold weather. We soon picked up the RR and followed it north west at about 300 feet. As we flew along, I started photographing the old China landscape and villages. The most remarkable thing that I noticed that as we left the Nationalist holdings, and crossed over into the communist ones, was the sudden lack of anything, especially food. There were no pigs, goats, dogs, chickens, or pigs running around, just little old ladies that ran after us waving brooms? There were no men or children evident ?

As we flew over a crest we came to a RR junction where there were thousands of men, animals and trucks milling about, we learned later that they were forming for an attack on the nationalists.We circled, and came back over them. at about 50 ft waving at them, then circled again. But this time all that I saw were men diving for cover and pack animals scattering their cargos everywere with men frantically trying to catch them.. We realized our boo boo and climbed to about 500 ft and came back rocking our wings, then continued north on the RR. .

There were no further incidents, so we decided to return much further to the East and finally landed at our base in Tsingtao. We were met with several truckloads of Chinese soldiers fully armed pointing their rifles at us ??? There were also a large no. of Chinese and American officials. They promptly demanded my film, but let me keep my camera. We were then escorted to the central office building and interrogated one by one about our flight. About this time I heard the local Chinese P-51's coming in to land, I had wondered why there were none when we had landed, but assumed that they were attacking the communist troops some where. I made a remark about this to one of the American consulate men. He just looked at me for a moment, then said "they were looking for you , in fact all of the Chinese National Air forces were. They had flat orders, backed by the US, to shoot us down on sight.. It seems that the Communists and the Russians had complained officially as to why the US was commencing combat flights against the Chinese Communists. We had broken up the planned attack, it was never carried out.

We then explained just what had happened and why, so soon it was brushed aside for what it was worth. . No one was officially repremanded nor were any notations put into our service records, but we were told that we had been extremely fortunate, That every one was looking for us to eliminate a potential problem.

That afternoon I decided that I would have a delicious shrimp dinner. This consisted of 3 huge shrimp / prawns cooked in hot sauce and were out of this world. The airfield was some miles outside of Tsingtao, and as part of the road was controlled by the Communists, it was the custom during the day for us to unfurl an American flag when we approached the fire zone, at which time an officer from each would appear,stop the firing, then escort us through the fire zone. We would then go on our way, and they back to their shooting.

When I arrived in town, I took a rickshaw to the restaurant, After, I decided to see "the Bells of St Mary, with' Bing Crosby. I was surprised to find that he spoke excellent Chinese he he. Due to the many breakdowns, it took longer than usual, I didn't notice the time, just that sitting a a flat board bench was a bit uncomfortable

When it finished, I Ieft the theatre, but found that I had overstayed and my ride had gone. Since it was the last one for that day, no-one tried to go over the disputed area at night, I was marooned in Tsingtao for the night. No problem, I would just go get a room in a hotel right? WRONG. I had forgotten that there were a few million refugees in town, there were no rooms available. I was dressed with my nylon flight suit under my uniform and long coat, still,I was freezing and trembling from that cold wind that was blowing right off of the Gobi desert, the coldest and most penetrating wind that I have ever experienced. My poor rickshaw man was dressed in only a padded cotton vest, his legs were bare.

After some hours we both were beat, everything was closed, no rooms. I was stopped, when he said "there is a place that has rooms, but is not normally used by white gentlemen. I said "let's go, we both have to get under cover or we will freeze to death tonight"

So he padded his way down to the docks and into a huge sprawling collection of shacks that were constructed of whatever could be found and used. There were no streets or alleys, only some space between the shacks to walk in. The entire compound had an indescribable horrible odor and oozed a palpable feeling of pure evil. I learned later that both the police and the military refused to go in there, yet here was a prosperous American stumbling around in the dark?? An obvious target . With every step the.45 under my clothes grew smaller and smaller.

We eventually ended up in front of a sprawling compound of perhaps 10 shacks connected together that were lit with candles. We entered, and he disappeared, I could hear distant voices raised, then quiet. He appeared from the shadows and said "Yes, you can have a room for the night, it will cost ---" "ok" I replied, "now go home and get warm.". I thanked him, paid the lurking madam, then gave him what I had left, except for breakfast - if I was lucky.. I figured the poor guy might as well have it as the bandits in the morning.

The madam then led me through the rooms and we ended up at the last one. It had a blanket to cover the door, and was about 8' by 15 ft. As you entered, it had the ever present charcoal stove at your right, which almost killed me that night from the fumes. At the far end, at right angles, it had two saw horses with planks over them. There was a cotton pad covering the 3 planks, and had a pillow that consisted of rice hulls. .There was a gal sitting at the end of the plank bed.in the shadows.

I thanked the madam then approached the pore worn out gal on the bed,I said that I was too tired for any activities, and to go sleep with one of her friends. She never said a word, but went to the the blanket door and left. Soon I could ear some low sniffing, so I went to the door and there she was crouched on the cold floor gently crying ? I asked she was crying ? She answered saying that if I threw her out, she would then have to live in the streets, that they wouldn't want her any more.

So what could a red blooded Yankee guy do ? I told her to come back into the room and sit on the bed. the plank bed wasn't really big enough for two to sleep on side by side So I was wondering how to pass the night. she solved part of it by rolling up the cover for a pillow to sit against the wall while leaving the rice hull pillow for me. Incidentally, for those of you that are not familiar with rice hull pillows, they are exactly the same if you fill them with sand.

So there we sat, even 'Ivan' wouldn't have touched her, so I scouted around about how to pass the night, then I found out with my "Me Tarzan you Jane Chinese " that she didn't know how to read or write, so I spent Christmas eve teaching a pore, worn out Ho basic written Chinese.

The next day as I found my way out the sprawl it didn't look nearly as bad in the sunlight as it did the night before. Although I later found that they collected a dozen or more bodies nightly. I presume that being pure of heart and action, the Lord was watching over me..©@

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Digger54

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Asian Adventure

I thought that chapter was "Ding How!" :icon_thumleft:
 

OP
OP
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Nov 8, 2004
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digger = ding hao = an old Asian jarhead for sure, HI my friend. Carlson introduced that phrase in 42 to the Marine corp. I remember him talking to our small group about the Makin Island trip, just a few weeks after returning from it. fascinating.

Ding hao = Chinese for ok, well done , for those that are not familiar with it. Bu hao is the opposite.

Gracias mi amigo.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Digger54

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Dec 6, 2010
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I am going to be off line for a few days but will catch your adventures when I get back mi amigo.

I have daughters and grand daughters visiting and will be heading down to Sebastion Inlet shortly for a few days R&R. I plan on plopping (excuse the spelling here...) Woe-da Jung Wa Tai Tai on the jetty to fish, while I take my Sovereign GT down to the beach for a million to one shot of finding something while looking out over the water at the guys blowing holes in the bottom for goodies.
 

OP
OP
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Nov 8, 2004
14,582
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Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
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I explained to the original backers that I had borrowed a book from an old woman in Guaymas and had found an envelope with a letter inside. Naturally I opened it and found that it was a will.

It said in Spanish - " Letter of inheritance for my grand son, Miguel Palacios, being in the latter days of my life, that he as a military man, take the old road south from Hermosillo that crosses the first mt range from East to west, one that was made with a great amount of work with bar and hatchet.

He is to cross the first range in the southern direction until he comes to the the valley covered with Chilacote (a white poppy). He is always to keep towards south. Soon he will see a mesa that is cut in half, he is to continue to this mesa. He is to cross the cut, and go past the arroyo (wash). He is to continue past three small lomas (hills) always in the southern direction. After crossing the third loma, he will come to a small cliff, there he is to halt.

He is then to turn to his right, to where the sun sets. He will there encounter a small platform. From here he will see the dunp of the mine below a small ridge. On the other side of the same mt he will see the other mine".


They decided that 'yes', we should go give it a try, so the boozer, Don, and his co partner in the gas contest, Lee, and I set out from Guaymas in his old, beat up pickup. I believe that 6 or 7 of it's cylinders were actually working. We went south from Guaymas to the junction of the side road that led to Ortiz. We passed the old US satt tracking station on our left and continued on past many beautiful grape vineyards until after about an hour, we finally entered Ortiz, see map.

After buying supplies and asking around, we found a small crude secondary dirt road - trail would be more correct, that went west and took off. there was no sign of any ranches or houses, so when we came to an old Spanish well, we stopped and set up camp.


The next day we set off going as far west as we could to the first large valley that ran north and south. It was covered with chilicote, (white poppies), but unfortunately, so was everything else. Still we walked north to where it dropped down from the northern pass. We found the remains of an ancient road then started working our way backwards towards the south. Sure enough as we continued south, we saw a mesa in the distance, that dipped towards the north. It was cut east and west by an arroyo.

We returned to camp, hot, tired, dirty and thoroughly beat up. This was in late June, no rains yet, but the temp was running to about 125 - 130F in the breezeless canyons. We had probably swallowed hundreds of the small sweat flies that covered us no matter where we went. So we promply dropped a bucket into the well, then dumped the 50' degree water over our over heated bodies and almost had heart attacks from the shock of the cold water. but it felt wonderful, however it made us think of the original explorers in this zone, they had no water nor a nice cold well to bath with -- no matter what else they might be, they 'were' Tough Men in those days.

We cooked dinner, then while we were eating, the je jenes (no-see ems) came out for their nightly dinner accompanied by clouds of (San Cudos)mosquito's. It was a toss up if they added any protein to our dinner, since they swarmed over our plates also.. We were thoroughly miserable. Fortunately both were heavy smokers so we crawled up into the bed of the pickup to try to sleep. The smoke did help. The next morning we gathered dried cow poop for smudge fires, and had one going in each end of the pickup bed. IT WORKED, very few little hungry critters, but it didn't help to cool the bed any sigh. Oh well, such is the glorious, romantic life of adventurers, treasure hunters, and lost mine hunters.

The next morning, still very tired from lack of sleep, we decided to go the the mesa. Since it was on the flat land, by making our own road, we managed to get within a few hundred meters of it. We had a shock the arroyo was about 300 meters wide, flat, and had an old fashioned Spanish well, the type that was extra wide and has spiral ramps down to the water. We promptly set up camp here.

We foud the remains of ruins everywhere. Unfortunately we did not have a metal locator, remember this was in the 50's. We returned to Ortiz for more provisions and while we were talking to the store keeper, a very old Indian shuffled over to us and said "if the senors will permit it, I can show where everything was in the old pueblo. I lived there most of my life, but when I became too old, I came here to Ortiz to live". My uncle used to dig around the old smelter and take burros loaded with high grade silver ore to Guaymas two or three times a year to sell. sheesh we had a gold mine of information in him, so we told him that we would pay him to show us the locations of the old buildings, smelter and Mission. He agreed and went with us to the old well site.

He stayed with us for two days, it was a fascinating two days. He visually reconstructed the entire village for us, he showed us where he had lived, where his aunts and family had lived, the old smelter remains, dumps, where his uncle had dug for the hi grade silver to sell, but most important for us, the remains of the old Mission. The base stones for the wall were still in place. It was a long rectangular shape. We took him back to Ortiz where we gladly paid him twice what we had promised, he agreed to go back with us any time that we wished


side note: I returned there years later with my son to show him what we had found, where we had explored and camped, to find that the area had been taken over by an Ejido, a communal group. Everything had been changed, except for the well. The mission site had been razed, the base stones were used to construct a cattle watering trough some 500 meters away. The present inhabitants didn't even know that the well was old Spanish from about 300 year ago. They simply were not interested. This would be a detectorist's paradise.

I suppose that I should make a detailed map for any future archaeologists since I am now the only one alive that knows of it's existence and it's layout. But then, it is the same for many other points that only I know of today, but sigh being a bit lazy ---- let tomorrow find their own mines.
©@
pp1
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Google cordinates
Ortiz 28* 1' 26 99" N / 110* 42'58 65" W

Ejido
28* 14' 59 97" N / 110* 45'39 54" W

Small two man lookout fort

28* 14' 31 14" N / 110* 46' 51 39 N
 

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