Vox veritas
Bronze Member
- Aug 2, 2008
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- All Treasure Hunting
Archaeological authorities say no to the treasure hunters in Mexico!
- Thread starter Vox veritas
- Start date
Digger54
Sr. Member
- Dec 6, 2010
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Interesting subject.
"In December of that year, the Convention, member of the First Scientific and Technical Advisory Council, which will establish international cooperation and technology transfer, provide direct advice and support in the training of human resources for research and protection of underwater heritage, mainly through negotiation with no treasure hunters."
Unless something was lost in the initial translation, that is a disfunctional statement and a return to english language training might be in order.
"In December of that year, the Convention, member of the First Scientific and Technical Advisory Council, which will establish international cooperation and technology transfer, provide direct advice and support in the training of human resources for research and protection of underwater heritage, mainly through negotiation with no treasure hunters."
Unless something was lost in the initial translation, that is a disfunctional statement and a return to english language training might be in order.
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Gold Member
good morning my friend: If they refuse to negotiate with those that have spent their limited time of life and money following up rumors here and there of such things on the land and sea, then, as in my case, since I am the only one that actually knows 'of' several of them and their locations, they will effectively disappear when I am gone , so who gains with this attitude?
A simple example of the accelerating destructiveness of nature is that on land it takes years for the first large trees to grow to maturity on a temple, during this period minimal damage is done to the structure, but after, when the tree dies and or is weakend, it will fall when one of the periodic hurricanes hit, or from other causes.
In doing so it generally tears part of the structure away creating more potentially fertile ground for other trees to grow. Over the years this is an accelerating process until eventually 'if' they are 'ever' found and excavated, the value is greatly decreased or gone. For smaller structures this can be disastrous
When I was exploring in the Quintana Roo jungles next to Belize, my friend and I found a small Mayan temple. It was heavily overgrown. It was duly reported Mexico city, but never acknowledged, nor have I ever seen a report of any Archaeological activity in that region. I realize that they have more work than they can handle for the next few hundreds of years, however this accumulative lapse from many sources represents a tremendous amount of lost information.
Since we were operating under visual and compass locations only, I doubt that I can ever find it again. It may be completely destroyed by now.
As for ships, while the main structure remains fairly intact, it offers a form of protection, but as it is gradually destroyed the deterioration of the other archaeological materiel is greatly accelerated until nothing remains visible or is under sand or coral.
This attitude is self destroying and extremely short sighted, the argument that they are being saved for future explorations is facetious since much will no longer remain, so even with superior equipment, there will be nothing left to excavate, or even the knowledge of where the yet unfound and untouched ones are, this information would only come from those wiling to risk their lives and fortunes in a search that might involve years, yet this effort is not recognized or rewarded....
There should be a cooperative factor involved, whereby both the Archaeologist is assured of work, and the hunter a return for his investment and unique knowledge and ability in finding these unknown wrecks.
How many archaeological depts could / would afford either the time or the money in a search such as Mel fisher did ? Can you imagine the lost data if he had not been successful?
Actually every marine Archaeologist should nominate him as their patron Saint, after all, even though he was a treasure hunter, horrors, He sparked the growth of marine Archaeology and guaranteed 'them work'.
Don Jose de La Mancha
p.s. Interesting post Digger, prob lost in sequence of translation. "no negotiation with treasure hunters".
.
A simple example of the accelerating destructiveness of nature is that on land it takes years for the first large trees to grow to maturity on a temple, during this period minimal damage is done to the structure, but after, when the tree dies and or is weakend, it will fall when one of the periodic hurricanes hit, or from other causes.
In doing so it generally tears part of the structure away creating more potentially fertile ground for other trees to grow. Over the years this is an accelerating process until eventually 'if' they are 'ever' found and excavated, the value is greatly decreased or gone. For smaller structures this can be disastrous
When I was exploring in the Quintana Roo jungles next to Belize, my friend and I found a small Mayan temple. It was heavily overgrown. It was duly reported Mexico city, but never acknowledged, nor have I ever seen a report of any Archaeological activity in that region. I realize that they have more work than they can handle for the next few hundreds of years, however this accumulative lapse from many sources represents a tremendous amount of lost information.
Since we were operating under visual and compass locations only, I doubt that I can ever find it again. It may be completely destroyed by now.
As for ships, while the main structure remains fairly intact, it offers a form of protection, but as it is gradually destroyed the deterioration of the other archaeological materiel is greatly accelerated until nothing remains visible or is under sand or coral.
This attitude is self destroying and extremely short sighted, the argument that they are being saved for future explorations is facetious since much will no longer remain, so even with superior equipment, there will be nothing left to excavate, or even the knowledge of where the yet unfound and untouched ones are, this information would only come from those wiling to risk their lives and fortunes in a search that might involve years, yet this effort is not recognized or rewarded....
There should be a cooperative factor involved, whereby both the Archaeologist is assured of work, and the hunter a return for his investment and unique knowledge and ability in finding these unknown wrecks.
How many archaeological depts could / would afford either the time or the money in a search such as Mel fisher did ? Can you imagine the lost data if he had not been successful?
Actually every marine Archaeologist should nominate him as their patron Saint, after all, even though he was a treasure hunter, horrors, He sparked the growth of marine Archaeology and guaranteed 'them work'.
Don Jose de La Mancha
p.s. Interesting post Digger, prob lost in sequence of translation. "no negotiation with treasure hunters".
.
Saturna
Bronze Member
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp said:
That's because you were a young man when they wrecked and saw it first hand.
Digger54
Sr. Member
- Dec 6, 2010
- 281
- 4
- Detector(s) used
- Fisher F75SE, Minelab Sovereign GT, Fisher1280X, Nautilus DMCIIB
Very good point about the sequencing Don Jose. I find it troubling that they go to such great lengths to throw darts at treasure hunters in the article. I wonder if this is being taught at the academic levels and then being carried into their careers as a banner cause.
You are quite right about the need for cooperation before the history is lost to nature and time. Question is what will turn the hate mongering off.
You are quite right about the need for cooperation before the history is lost to nature and time. Question is what will turn the hate mongering off.
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Gold Member
Sat, shhhh I only cover from 1846 on, let them think that I can cover from 1500 on.
Digger, Unfortunately there is a superiority factor trained into them comparatively speaking. The same factor that is beat into future doctors on being superior, especially towards nurses. They mistake formal archaeological training to superior intelligence, and so disregard treasure hunters, who in many cases have a higher, formal schooling, but in other sciences or fields.
But, to put it in another form, many non titled divers / treasurehunters trained in the school of hard knocks or actual treasure hunting, have a higher IQ and practical understanding of the world, and realize that the world needs that metal recovery - "right now" - rather than duplicate after duplicate of basic archaeological artifacts.
That money 'in circulation', could mean the difference between life and death for many in the very near future, possibly even for many archaeologists also. Sitting on the bottom in an unknown site, does nothing for anyone, including Archaeology..
Frankly I find it hard to believe that for every useable artifact found in a shipwreck that there aren't thousand and thousands of the same more easily found on land. Soo what is so important about ships as such?
Don Jose de La Mancha
p.s. As an example of silly rules regarding archaeological materiel, it has been ruled that anything over 50 years old cannot be removed or touched. This means that I cannot go back to one of my past exploration areas and retrieve or look for something that 'I personally' had left there or to my camp sites and clean it up ?
Shaddup Sat, snicker, I am not an archaeological thingie.
Digger, Unfortunately there is a superiority factor trained into them comparatively speaking. The same factor that is beat into future doctors on being superior, especially towards nurses. They mistake formal archaeological training to superior intelligence, and so disregard treasure hunters, who in many cases have a higher, formal schooling, but in other sciences or fields.
But, to put it in another form, many non titled divers / treasurehunters trained in the school of hard knocks or actual treasure hunting, have a higher IQ and practical understanding of the world, and realize that the world needs that metal recovery - "right now" - rather than duplicate after duplicate of basic archaeological artifacts.
That money 'in circulation', could mean the difference between life and death for many in the very near future, possibly even for many archaeologists also. Sitting on the bottom in an unknown site, does nothing for anyone, including Archaeology..
Frankly I find it hard to believe that for every useable artifact found in a shipwreck that there aren't thousand and thousands of the same more easily found on land. Soo what is so important about ships as such?
Don Jose de La Mancha
p.s. As an example of silly rules regarding archaeological materiel, it has been ruled that anything over 50 years old cannot be removed or touched. This means that I cannot go back to one of my past exploration areas and retrieve or look for something that 'I personally' had left there or to my camp sites and clean it up ?
Shaddup Sat, snicker, I am not an archaeological thingie.
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