Sunken treasure sparks complicated legal tussle...

[jeff k]

http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters..._legal_tussle/

[ivan salis]

bob marx is getting a bit salty in his later years -- bet in his younger money hungry "need working capital years" his advice would have been "invest that treasure hunting money with my group that I'm working with " funny how time changes ones point of veiw.

its true however that the return on money "invested" in treasure hunting is often zero . --its a very risky bussiness even if you do get a straight shooter as a partner.

[capt dom]

It never ceases to amaze me how folks
that are suppose to have some brains get themselves
all wrapped up in such deals....

They kinda go with the twisted concept that if you are willing to
listen and possibly believe my outlandish stories.... well I I will return
the favor.....

and the answer to the question this case involves administration officials
at the highest levels...... the rats are guarding the cheese, boys and girls....
but of course it involves administration officials
at the highest levels......

We are returning our system that use to be "free enterprise based"
to reverting back to a feudal system.....
Its so theatrical...
There is even a "Black Knight"
at the helm....

[ivan salis]

greed is the answer to how do folks at high levels get wound up in this mess -- the folks that found the stones took some to "prove" what they found was "real" to the folks that can fund and "arrange" for the legal paperwork so ithe treasure can be "legally" recovered and money made from it -- of course all means of making "money from treasure " is subject to grubbermmint control and taxation --try to earn money without the grubbermint and the powers that be (politicans) getting a cut of it and you'll wind up behind bars --count on it --gotta peice off the politicans one way or another --sometimes both ways --bribes (to get to do it - to get the permits) and then you gotta pay taxes as well for doing it and earning any "income" from doing it.

[old man]

greed is the answer to how do folks at high levels get wound up in this mess -- the folks that found the stones took some to "prove" what they found was "real" to the folks that can fund and "arrange" for the legal paperwork so ithe treasure can be "legally" recovered and money made from it -- of course all means of making "money from treasure " is subject to grubbermmint control and taxation --try to earn money without the grubbermint and the powers that be (politicans) getting a cut of it and you'll wind up behind bars --count on it --gotta peice off the politicans one way or another --sometimes both ways --bribes (to get to do it - to get the permits) and then you gotta pay taxes as well for doing it and earning any "income" from doing it.

Ivan, I am down here in Key West and have heard both sides of this STORY. I even talked to Mr. Horan on the phone. He described the two individuals that alledge that they found these emeralds as " The Blind Leading the Blind ". As far as your theory of the finders taking the best emeralds out of the safety deposit box to have money for paper work ?? Poppycock. The poeple that said, they found the emeralds were already given $2,000,000 by the investors before the stones were removed from the safety deposit box. The day before new investors were to view the emeralds and invest another $2,000,000 in the project , the emeralds in the story were removed form the safety deposit box..
I find it amazing that from the first day the emeralds were shown to the investors, over one and half years have gone by and no Admiralty Claim has been filed and NO one has ever dove to find any more emeralds. My personal opinon won't be shared as to how the emeralds were bought or recovered. Personally, I don't think it matters. Spain will claim everything in the end. Just my personal opinion.
http://news.yahoo.com/sunken-treasur...163336209.html

[ropesfish]

"We may not know whose property it is, but we know it's not yours," was how Ole Varmer, a staff attorney for National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, summed up the official view of treasure claims.
This may be the most coherent expression to date of the way our present government sees private property rights. If you get enough lawyers involved you could lose money running a brothel next to the front gate of a military base.

I like all of Mr. Marx's suggestion except for "And when the wind starts blowing get the money and throw it in the air and let it blow into the sea." Better idea: Save it for the next party and (of course) invite all nearby TreasureNet members!

[Escudoman]

KEY WEST SCENARIO--------Hey Gerry come on back to the master bedroom and take a look at all the worthless emeralds I have in these boxes in my closet. You know they were found on a reef by an ex fisher diver and Mr. Miskcovic is taking good care of him. Yes buckets of these worthless specimens were brought up and we keep them here because they are worthless. Please don't tell anyone we keep worthless emeralds here in a closet. Here take a handful of them and keep them because they are worthless. You know you're working for Emerald Reef LLC and we pride ourselves on taking $2,000,000.00 from investors with worthless specimens. You see some of these stones are very rare specimens and they are worthless. LOL

[FISHEYE]

This story smells fishy.If these brothers had already recovered the emeralds off a wreck,then why would they need any investors?They could have sold off a few emeralds to get more money and equipment to work the wreck and to pay to get a admiralty and lease.Or they cold have clammed up and told no one and worked the wreck to get more treasure.Now they stand too loose it all.Idiots.We dont need people like this in the treasure biz.

[Salvor6]

Its a scam FISHEYE. Thats why they didn't sell the emeralds!

[Old Bookaroo]

There is a great deal of misinformation about investing in treasure hunts. For example, many people have borderline accused Mel Fisher of fraud because the partnerships he formed and sold were only for 12 months. That was done to take advantage of an SEC loophole for one-year entities (otherwise, if there were more than 25 investors it had to be registered with the SEC - a very expensive proposition).

Some years ago I wrote an article for the old Treasure Quest Magazine about investing in treasure projects. I mention it because it's the only thing I've ever read on the topic, other than a chapter or two in Phil Olin's excellent Treasure; The Business & Technology (full disclosure - as always - I funded the first general printing of that landmark title).

Sunken treasure projects, in particular, are extraordinarily expensive. I've never seen the numbers, but I suggest the successful hunt for the SS John Berry lost money - despite finding at least 1,000,000 coins.

Barry Clifford's Whydah hunt was funded by a limited partnership underwritten by a Wall Street investment house. I'm sure those investors never recovered what they put into the deal.

Frank Pope's Dragon Sea touches on investing and returns. That is an excellent book in many respects.

As others have pointed out - there are generally several sides to every story. Don't be in too much of a hurry to draw conclusions until you've heard most of them.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

[Escudoman]

Their attorney is working on contingency and Mr. Horan is also on a percentage. They are broke, but have boxes of worthless emeralds. NY deposit box raided for the choice emeralds. They claim to have close to a billion dollars in Emeralds, but have to do construction work and cleaning hulls to get by. I see Spain watching this closely. Something is rotten in Key West.

[Bum Luck]

greed is the answer to how do folks at high levels get wound up in this mess -- the folks that found the stones took some to "prove" what they found was "real" to the folks that can fund and "arrange" for the legal paperwork so ithe treasure can be "legally" recovered and money made from it -- of course all means of making "money from treasure " is subject to grubbermmint control and taxation --try to earn money without the grubbermint and the powers that be (politicans) getting a cut of it and you'll wind up behind bars --count on it --gotta peice off the politicans one way or another --sometimes both ways --bribes (to get to do it - to get the permits) and then you gotta pay taxes as well for doing it and earning any "income" from doing it.

Well, almost. You can avoid the taxes, but you gotta pay off the pols, and quietly. That's what DCs all about. Sorta like in Rome, only worse.

[ropesfish]

I am so very unfamiliar with emeralds, I thought they were all worth something. What is a worthless emerald?

[Escudoman]

But in their own statement they claim the green specimens "stones" were worthless. When Gerry handled and inspected the stones he knew they were emeralds. He has studied minerals since at a very young age. Hence his gold claims in California and his success with geology and gold prospecting. Gerry has an exstensive mineral collection and has studied gems for years. Why would someone keep these worthless stones in a gun safe in a closet?

[PhipsFolly]

I've heard Bob Marx make a similar comment about investing in a treasure op in an older video I have, but he never mentioned that the chicks were naked...

[bronzecannons]

bob marx is getting a bit salty in his later years -- bet in his younger money hungry "need working capital years" his advice would have been "invest that treasure hunting money with my group that I'm working with " funny how time changes ones point of veiw.

I worked with him in Indonesia in 89 and 90 where they were paying him $500 per day for his 'consultant fees' (not including hotels, travel expenses, etc.) and that's exactly what I was thinking also. On one trip he even brought one of his 'trainee girlfriends' out to say on the barge with him so he definitely knows what he's talking about when mentioning about 'bringing a bunch of naked girls onboard to party with'!
TW

[FISHEYE]

Having a bunch of nekid chicks on your boat is a old smugglers trick.The marine patrol and CG wont mess with you thinking you are just out boating for pleasure.

[bronzecannons]

Having a bunch of nekid chicks on your boat is a old smugglers trick.The marine patrol and CG wont mess with you thinking you are just out boating for pleasure.

Well I'm all for that! lol
TW

[capt dom]

I am so very unfamiliar with emeralds, I thought they were all worth something. What is a worthless emerald?

There is a lot of emerald in the world......
There is just not a lot of truly "gem quality" emerald specimens.
Couple the above fact with the fact that emeralds are a relatively "soft"
gem, mechanics or gem setters hate to work with them. One wrong
tap of a hammer and either a crack or a chip can happen and
so start the problems.....
Anyone can purchase specimen grade emerald by the wheel barrel at
rock hound meets and many have .....
{not pointing the finger at anyone in particular}
then dumping them on their wreck sites for unwitting dupes
to find....

[FISHEYE]

Is this what cheep worthless emeralds look like?1 pic is with a flash and the other where they are green is without the flash.Found em on a beach yrs ago.