"Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

[Alexandre]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

Panfilo,
You may be surprised to find the government in Colombia and it's Cultural Antiquities Committee, is very pro Spain and very pro UNESCO. It has drafted new legislation over the past 6 months that hasn't been finalized. Be interested if you have sources that say otherwise.

Tatiana Villegas Zamora... a great Colombian friend.

 

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[Panfilo]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

Not sure what you’re trying to say Alexandre, quoting Terredo Navalis and then saying you’re a great friend of Tatiana Villegas….so? You hate Marx, love Tatiana, in case anybody had any doubts which side of the line you were on, it’s now very clear. Though Tatiana and I have been on opposite sides of this debate for over 17 years, I respect her and have the best regard for her, she is a fine lady. Can’t say I’m a good friend of her though they were kind enough to invite me to their last gathering of experts in Bogota some weeks ago.
Fact is that the Ministry of Culture has proposed a new law that has Tatiana and her UNESCO friends up in arms for introducing a “commercial” shipwreck model that is the highest degree of treason and the mark of an infidel nation. So, Alexandre, if Teredo was right “…the government in Colombia and it's Cultural Antiquities Committee, is very pro Spain and very pro UNESCO” why the present proposed draft, anti-UNESCO, anti -Spain?
Panfilo

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

No disrespect taken Ossy, a valid question more so in these turbulent nautical times. The San Jose was in a commercial mission when it was atacked by the British. During most of the Spanish colonial era most of the commerce was transported aboard war ships, the "Flota" system was designed for this. Now if you take say the Santisima Trinidad that sank during Trafalgar in 1805 in a clearly naval battle that is sovereign ship in a military mission, no doubt.
Panfilo

Panfilo, you may have no doubt's but if they ever find the San Jose, I'm sure Spain will have something to say about it
It was a Spanish built Galleon and the Flag ship, It doesn't get any more sovereign than that !! Spain has never stated that it abandoned her:
She was not a cargo ship, Yes I Know all about your commercial stance: It will be all nil and void.
Ossy

 

[Panfilo]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

I think Ossy that Spain will study its case very well before proceeding for two reasons. The recent Sea Search Armada decission by the Colombian Supreme Court (242 pages) states the san Jose is Colombian cultural patrimony, not an easy battle. Politically it might be very counter productive for Spain, its a very sensitive subject not worth the fight as Spain, being a UNESCO signatory could not sell the gold and silver. Amanecera y veremos.
Panfilo

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

Panfilo, I would love to see all relics and treasure in a Colombian museum and so would Spain
Not sold on eBay.
Best wishes, Ossy

 

[Teredo Navalis]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

Panfilo,
It sound as though your "sources" have one degree of separation from the actual information and committees. My sources are two degrees, but are telling me the same, specifically the recent Ministry of Culture's foray into this fight. I clearly feel the government would NOT return the San Jose's cargo, as a commercial ship, over to Spain if found in it's territorial waters. The ship and the possible human remains ( if present) is another story.
I have nothing but respect for President Santo and his government. I feel there would be a much greater change he would share silver with Peru, than agree to split with Spain. Sorry, Ossy!

 

[Panfilo]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

It’s not a matter of “sources” per se Teredo, I suspect you have some very fine sources, it’s a matter of reading the new law draft and observing that the way it is structured it goes against the core UNESCO principles of “in situ preservation” and prohibition of any and all commercialization of its artifacts.
Regarding both Peru and Spains possible aspirations in regards to wrecks in Colombian waters, even if the President were so inclined to assist them (I don’t think so), going against the Constitution can and will land you in jail.
Panfilo

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

Pan, here in the good old USA if our government wants to circumvent our constitution they just use the EPA and the U.N.

 

[Darren in NC]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

What if the archaeologists (who are friendly with private and responsible salvage firms) banded together to form their own non-profit organization? And what if they published relevant documentation and articles for all to enjoy? And what if time showed they accomplished more than their "in situ" counterparts? Would this accomplish much in addition to the lobbying against gov't encroachment? What documented evidence do we already have in the past 40 years of underwater archaeology that would support such ideology?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

note "protect OUR galleons "-- so it all belongs to them , now eh?---well then there is really no need to read any farther folks since the title sums up their mind set with those 3 words -- in other words --- mine, mine, mine -- doesn't that remind you of a spoiled 3 year old brat screaming that -- no one can play with the toys but me. -- sad to see grown ups act like 3 year olds isn't it.

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

"Spanish politicians are only interested in filling its national coffers with gold."

Same old same old, last 500 years...............

Why don't you guys 'fess up and grow up?

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

"Spanish politicians are only interested in filling its national coffers with gold."

Same old same old, last 500 years...............

Why don't you guys 'fess up and grow up?

Can we have Florida back We will need to do a spring clean first.

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

Can we have Florida back We will need to do a spring clean first.

Ala - Ribault again?

Yeah, Bring it on.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: "Protect our galleons": towards a policy of protection of underwater heritage

WE ARE NOT UNARMED FRENCH -