$3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbors Back Yard

[Batavia]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

There is a list of WWII ships carrying platinum lost in all parts of the world and various depths too...

The quantities are quite big (50 or 70 tons), but I only found it was matte and not bars or ingots...!! Which means a LOT of difference ! Platinum mineral concentration in these cases is never worth a very costly salvage, otherwise deep salvors would have put their technology to retrieve those cargoes long time ago...

 

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[piratediver]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Here is one for Paulo a.k.a. Alexandre:


By Gitonga Marete and Bozo Jenje, 2 February 2012 Just before the Portuguese surrendered to the Arabs in 1697, there was an intense battle for control of Fort Jesus.

In the process, a Portuguese warship that had been deployed near the fort was sunk. Christened Santo Antonio, the ship still lies on the sea bed near the fort, piling on rust by the kilo.

But Santo Antonio's fate could soon change because the National Museums of Kenya (NMK) is planning to salvage it and turn it into a tourist attraction.

Industry players say there is a fortune lying deep in the waters that surround Mombasa, one of the most important trade and military destinations of the 17th century.

Because of its role as a convergence point for Portuguese, Arab, and British explorers, the port town witnessed some of the bloodiest conflicts during that era, and NMK believes that there are tens of ships wrecked around the island.

Underwater archaeologists say that, if well preserved, these shipwrecks and the artefacts they are believed to hold could help revive cultural tourism at the Coast, a sector whose fortunes have dwindled over the past few years.

For instance, statistics indicate that the number of foreign and local visitors to Fort Jesus, the main cultural site at the Coast, has remained at around 170,000 a year in the past five years -- apart from 2008, when it declined to 130,000 due to the political turmoil that rocked the country that year.

And, with the current decline in cruise tourism due to pirate activity in the Indian Ocean, a substitute product is necessary to supplement the shortfall in earnings.

Kenya's tourism earnings have been on the rise over the past three years, with the industry earning the exchequer Sh73.4 billion in 2010, up from Sh62 billion the previous year, while projections for last year, whose figures have yet to be released, are in the range of Sh80 billion.

However, the industry is banking on diversification into high-end products -- besides the traditional safaris and beach tourism -- if this growth is to be sustained.

Two weeks ago, Mr Caesar Bita, the National Museums' head of underwater archaeology, accompanied by his colleague Phillip Wanyama (the two are the only underwater archaeologists in the country), spent several hours examining Santo Antonio before going to Ngomeni in the South Coast for yet another exploration.

"One of the ways to preserve these artefacts and turn them into tourist attractions is by securing the wreck and fitting it with underwater cameras that transmit images to visitors above sea level. Given today's technology, this is possible, although a bit expensive," says Mr Bita.

There are many other ships that sank off Mombasa, including Highland Lassie (1879), Sussex (1909), and Hamad (1909). Of the 32 known shipwrecks along the Kenyan coastline, 11 have lain in the deep waters for more than 50 years. The rest have been there for a shorter period.

In Africa, heritage tourism has not been fully exploited to attract high value tourists who make an average of three visits annually, according to the World Tourism Organisation (WTO).

But now heritage professionals in Kenya and Egypt are working towards realising the objective of generating revenue by providing underwater cultural tours where visitors can enjoy the flora and fauna of the deep seas.

Mr Wanyama says the museum is carrying out a search in the Indian Ocean to document shipwrecks in Mombasa, Malindi, and Lamu, then ways of conserving them while they work to build capacity to implement the project.

Findings from the study will be linked to the history of the growth and development of the three towns, and the National Museums of Kenya is at the initial stages of documenting the wrecks to establish their status, stability in the ocean, and the material used in their construction.

"We shall look at the existing parts of the wrecks, engine block, and timber and make reference with others manufactured at that period across the world," says Mr Wanyama. "From there, we will develop a sketch of the original ship."

According to the NMK Act, properties that qualify to be listed as underwater cultural heritages are those that are over 50 years old.

The United Nations Education Scientific and Cultural Organisation (Unesco) defines cultural heritage as those that have attained the 100-year mark and which have been consistently in water.

In Malindi, the latest discovery is of a ship that sank in the 14th century. Mr Bita, who discovered the wreck while doing a survey in 2008 at Ngomeni, two kilometres from the shoreline at a depth of 10 metres, says further research is being conducted to establish the name of the ship that has been christened Ngomeni.

"We expect that the ship will be the oldest among those that sunk along the Kenyan coastline," he says, adding that studies were underway to determine the origin, age, cargo, and type of timber used to construct it.

And in Lamu, NMK is working with the Chinese government in a three-year project to study the wreck of a ship that is believed to have sank off the Kenyan coast 600 years ago.

The ship is claimed to have sailed during China's Ming Dynasty as part of the fleet led by Adm Zheng He, who reached Malindi in 1418.

China is building a giant underwater museum to preserve and exploit an ancient shipwreck that is more than 800 years old.

Other countries that have exploited this resource include Canada, Australia, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

An underwater museum planned to be established in Alexandria, Egypt, will be one of its kind in Africa.

However, according to archaeologists, establishing such a museum needs heavy investment in equipment to ensure safety underwater and highly trained personnel.

Mr Bita and Mr Wanyama were trained in China and Egypt because Africa has been slow to introduce such programmes in its educational institutions.

Underwater archaeology studies in Africa are only offered at the Alexandria University in Egypt.

To implement the underwater museum project, tour guides would have to be trained on how to conduct excursions and ensure visitors' safety.

"So long as the guides abide by instructions, nothing should go wrong while enjoying underwater sites," says Mr Wanyama.

Tourism industry players have lauded the project, saying it should be exploited to attract more tourists to coastal towns.

Mombasa and Coast Tourist Association (MCTA) chairman Mohamed Hersi says underwater museums have great potential to attract thousands of visitors, who visit cultural sites if they are maintained to international standards.

He cites the Globe Star, a cargo ship that sank along Nyali Reef with 10,000 tonnes of wheat on April 27, 1973, and a part of which is visible above the waterline, as one of the cultural treasures that are waiting to be exploited.

Despite an intensive salvage operation, Globe Star broke in half and was abandoned. In November of the same year, five people involved in a salvage attempt died in one of the cargo holds due to gas poisoning.

"These wrecks -- with the accompanying history and intrigues -- would attract many tourists and boost revenue as well as create jobs," Mr Hersi says.

Tagged: East Africa, Kenya, Travel

Copyright © 2012 The Nation. All rights reserved. Distributed by AllAfrica Global Media (allAfrica.com). To contact the

 

[inletsurf]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Seems pretty legit to me, plenty of visual evidence here.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/happe...sunken-wwii-treasure-found/?playlist_id=86919


Who needs an archeologist? The thing was hit by german torpedos. What more do you want? To study trivial facts and arrive to the same conclusion? F that. Archeology brings us nothing beyond the obvious in this instance. This IS a salvage operation, and rightfully so!!

 

[ivan salis]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

everything you need to "know" about the wreck archie wize is known * it was a WW2 era freighter that was sunk by a nazi u boat -- end of story -- its a clear cut type of "salvage operation" -- no the problem will be this for the "claim of discovery folks" --will the US govt claim the gold on board as --US govt owned "payments" for WW2 lend / lease war goods sent to Russia ? or will the Russian govt try to claim it ? -- govt money even if lost stays "govt" money , have no doubt of that --the US govt after WW2 had us navy divers gather boxes of silver pesos that were dumped into the ocean to prevent the japanese from getting them * --the US govt will not share "ITS" MONEY count on it . --bottom line --its going to be US GOVT MONEY IN THE END-- OR RUSSIAN GOVT MONEY * if its veiwed as not being "fully delievered" to the US govt.

 

[Alexandre]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Here is one for Paulo a.k.a. Alexandre:

Thanks, I missed that one!

The Santo Antonio de Tanna remains were excavated by INA and Portuguese Navy Diver's back in the late 1970's:


http://inadiscover.com/projects/all/africa/santo_antoni_da_tanna_mombasa_wreck/introduction/

 

[Alexandre]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

oooops......

http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2012/02/...ue-baron-and-the-70-tons-of-platinum-deja-vu/

 

[j-golden]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Idaho and Alexandre - you don't know anything about this project. one of you is wondering why you haven't seen any platinum yet. have you tried to recover anything in 700' of water, in the shipping channels 50 mi. east of provincetown? didn't think so. just keeping the rov they have under control is challenging enough. and if they are hoping for more investor money, so what? the task at hand is extremely challenging. i know the captain of this operation, and they are dedicated to recovering this ship; but it is not an easy task.

 

[Jones Indiana]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

TR

Just wondering if the Soviet archives where searched? if any files of the NVKD where looked at?

Find it hard to believe comrade Stalin didn't have his nose in it.

Best

Indy

 

[arctic]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

TRIDENTRESEARCH, you claim to have several documents supporting your claim of platinum. SSR has made a major publicity push through worldwide media that there is proof. Since SSR has made this public knowledge that the wreck is the Port Nicholson and that you claim to have the documents proving platinum was on board, why not put all skeptics to rest by simply providing the name and location of the archives you have gotten this proof from and post the complete document. I am somewhat suspicions of the document you posted. Please see notations on attached. SSR is trying VERY hard to convince the world that the platinum story is fact, yet the simplest way to do this is to produce the beef. And don’t give me the crap that it is company confidential and secret; you and SSR are blasting this all over the news. If the wreck truly had platinum I would have expected the greatest salvor ever to have gone after it. If you are not familiar with the history of Risdon Beazley do some Google research. He makes Odyssey look like kids play. Risdon Beazely worked both off the US East coast and Canadian East coast salvaging WW II wrecks under contract to the British government and Lloyds of London. Awaiting the BEEF.

 

[Jones Indiana]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Your the only one alternating a document to suit your agenda. On the other hand:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Only the investigation will support the claims.

Best.

Indy

 

[Darren in NC]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Why can't people ask questions without being so demeaning? Curiosity is expected, but harsh attitudes always confuse me.

Nonetheless, for what it is worth, I have visited NARA on numerous occasions. TR and I were working together on another project when he discovered the first reference to the platinum. I have seen the documentation. It was only discovered in 2007 by TR and only disclosed to SSR who contracted with him. That's why no other salvor has gone after it.

You may want to read a little more about Risdon Beazley Ltd. RB didn't go after precious metal cargoes as his contracts were after commercial non-ferrous metals such as copper, tin, etc. The Brits have awarded very few contracts for precious metals and none were given to RB, though he did stumble on precious metals rarely when salvaging other metals.

 

[Alexandre]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Whatever happened to this "Blue Baron"? It was after all in 2009... where are the gold, platinum and diamonds?


British shipwreck holds £2.6 billion treasure, explorers claim

Salvagers claim to have found the world's richest wreck – a British ship sunk by a Nazi submarine while laden with a £2.6 billion cargo that included gold, platinum and diamonds.

The Telegraph, by Jasper Copping, 9:00PM GMT 24 Jan 2009

In a project shrouded in secrecy, work is due to start on recovering the cargo, which was being transported to the United States to help pay for the Allied effort in the Second World War.

A picture believed to be the Blue Baron shows it is a tramp steamer

The scale of the treasure trove is likely to unleash a series of competing claims from interested parties. Salvage laws are notoriously complex and experts say there could be many years of legal wrangling ahead.

In order to protect its find until the cargo is brought to the surface, the company that located the wreck has not released the name of the vessel or its exact location, but has given the ship the code name "Blue Baron".

It says the merchant ship, which had a predominantly British crew, had left a European port, laden with goods for the US Treasury under the Lend-Lease scheme, whereby the American government gave material support to the Allied war effort in exchange for payments.

The Blue Baron first sailed to a port in South America, where it unloaded some general cargo, before continuing north in a convoy, heading for New York.

However, the company claim it was intercepted by German U-boat U87 and sent to the bottom by two torpedoes in June 1942, with the loss of three crew members. Their nationalities are not known.

Sub Sea Research, a US-based marine research and recovery firm, claims it has now located the wreck under 800ft of water about 40 miles off Guyana.

Greg Brooks, the company's founder and co-manager, said: "This British freighter had an extremely valuable cargo and we decided there wasn't a lot of point in leaving it at the bottom of the sea. This will definitely be the richest wreck ever."

Until now, historians have not credited U87 with sinking any vessels in that area in June 1942 and it was thought to have been operating further north in the Atlantic.

However, Sub Sea Research claims to have located the submarine's log book which prove it did sink the "Blue Baron", as well as documents from the port of origin, the US Treasury and the Lend-Lease programme giving clues as to what was on board.

A picture of the Blue Baron supplied to The Sunday Telegraph by the company shows it is a tramp steamer and her funnel appears to resemble those of the shipping line Hogarth and Co, of Glasgow, whose ships were known as Hungry Hogarths.

Tantalisingly, the names of its ships all began with the word Baron – indicating that the Blue Baron could be one of them. However, none of the fleet's 17 ships lost in the war appear to have been sunk in this area in June 1942.

The picture also resembles Port Nicholson, a steamer sunk by U87 in June 1942 but 2,000 miles north of Guyana off Cape Cod. Sub Sea Research insists that the Port Nicholson is not the Blue Baron.

It claims that the Blue Baron's cargo included at least ten tons of gold bullion, 70 tons of platinum, one a half tons of industrial diamonds and 16 million carats of gem quality diamonds.

In addition, there were several thousands tons of tin and a few thousand tons of copper ingots. Although the tin and copper may have lost some value after years on the sea bed, the precious metals and diamonds would not have done so.

The haul's total worth is calculated at £2.6 billion at today's prices, according to the firm.

Captain Richard Woodman, author of The Real Cruel Sea, a history of the merchant navy in the Second World War, said: "A lot of merchant ships did have to carry valuable cargoes like this.

Any heavy materials had to go by sea. It was the only way to get from A to B. There would have been an element of protection for them, but in the end it is just the coincidence of war that a ship happens to stop a torpedo."

A 220ft salvage vessel is currently being equipped to recover the cargo. It is due to sail next week from the US state of Louisiana to the wreck site, which lies in international waters.

The company has refused to reveal which government sent the valuables to the US or which was the Blue Baron's final port of call in Europe.

It is thought much of the treasure could be Russian, although part, including the diamonds, may have been British.

Britain and Russia were the two main beneficiaries of the Lend-Lease scheme, under which the US provided $50 billion of supplies - equivalent to $700 billion (£510 billion) in today's money.

Although explorers are permitted in law to stake claims on items they recover from the seabed, the original owners can make counter claims.

Sub Sea Research was forced to go public with its discovery when it filed a claim on the treasure in a US federal admiralty court, to which no counter claims have been lodged so far.

Mr Brooks said: "No one has stepped forward to make a claim yet, probably because the government that lost it does not realise.

"We are trying to keep it as quiet as possible until we have it in our possession. We think the possessions on board may belong to more than one country.

"I know for a fact that everyone possible will try to take it from us, but we are doing everything by the book. I think the worst case scenario, under salvage law, is that we would get 90 per cent of it. But we are trying to go for 100 per cent."

Mike Williams, an expert in salvage law at Wolverhampton University, said the Government which had owned the cargo would retain a strong claim on it.

He said: "Both Britain and Russia transhipped large quantities of precious goods to the US to pay for their war effort. It would be unlikely the salvors would be able to keep it all.

"The real winners will be the lawyers. There is a marine lawyers' saying that treasure is trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------

This article was debunked by Shipping Times:

"Murky treasure ship find raises doubts
Identity of vessel less than clear...


Yesterday's Sunday Telegraph carries a report that a US salvage company has found a torpedoed cargo ship, which they claim contains the greatest ever maritime treasure from a wreck.

The photo that accompanies the article is a blurred fascimile that is supposed to be the wreck. They have, according to the Telegraph, codenamed the vessel 'BLUE BARON" as they do not want the identity of the vessel made known, not her exact whereabouts.

A member of staff at the Sunday Telegraph linked the photo to a vessel called the PORT NICHOLSON and Shipping Times has located a photo that is the original of this fascimile which clearly shows that the Telegraph was correct. The photo IS that of the PORT NICHOLSON. She was lost off Cape Cod, sunk by U87 on 16 June, 1942.

This rather casts a doubt on the company's insistence that U87 sunk their wreck in June '42. From available records it is quite clear U87 was never off Guyana in that year, never mind that month. In fact in all her (short) career she spent her time exclusively patroling either the Iberian coast or on the North Atlantic.

On 19th May 1942 she left St. Nazaire to start a 51 day patrol of the North Atlantic. From data obtained at Uboat.net it is evident each day was plotted faithfully until she retuned to St. Nazaire on the 8th July. At no time could she, or did she, deviate from this patrol.

This then rules out this particular U-boat but leaves us with the questions on the wreck the company say they have found and, if she was a war loss, who sent her to the bottom.

The company claims their wreck lies 40 miles off Guyana and was on a voyage from Europe to New York with 'land-lease materials' - including gold bullion, gems and ingots of copper and other metals.

Shipping Times has looked at the records of every ship sunk by U-boats in June of 1942 and none of the sinkings match, not even closely.

In the Telegraph the company insists U87 sank their vessel in the location they have found her:

"...Sub Sea Research claims to have located the submarine's log book which prove it did sink the "Blue Baron", as well as documents from the port of origin, the US Treasury and the Lend-Lease programme giving clues as to what was on board."

It is beyond credibility that U87 was in that area at the time and even more incredulous that her movements should be covered up. Also, crew on the sunken vessel would have known what was in her hold.

Here is a list of vessels known to have sunk in the region of Guyana (we presume this refers to what was known as British Guiana ). We think we may have located the nearest wreck if we accept the US salvage company's location. However, not all facts fit for any one vessel as described by them

Nearly all of the vessels look similar or could be construed as similar to the photo provided by the company.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ss WEST CHETAC



Built 1919 South Western SB Co San Pedro
5637 tons
24 September 1942
U-175

Reportedly with general war supplies on a voyage from Norfolk VA to Basra. Ship was built for US Maritime Commission and at time of sinking was operated by Seas Shipping Inc, New York

31 dead and 19 survivors. Survivors questioned by the Germans. Sunk 100 miles north of Georgetown, BG


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ss TAMBOUR (ex FIDRA)
Built 1917 Fredriksstad
1827 tons
26 September 1942
U-175

Sunk west of Georgetown. She was on a voyage from Paramaribo to Trinidad with 2500 tons of bauxite. She was operated by Alcoa for the US War Shipping Administration.

8 dead. 24 survived.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ss ANEROID
Built 1917 at Belfast
5974 tons
2nd October 1942
U-175
130 miles off Georgetown, British Guiana

Under contract with American War Shipping Administration. Chartered to Alcoa SS Co.

Voyage: Paramaribo to Trinidad

Reported cargo: 3348 tons of bauxite.

On board 40 merchant crew, nine US Naval Armed Guard. 6 dead. 43 survivors including her master


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ss CARIBSTAR



2592 tons
1919 American SB Co Lorain OH
4th October 1942
U-175

Reportedly with ballast on a voyage from Trinidad to Georgetown.
Sunk west of Georgetown with the loss of 5 lives. 29 survived. Sank after two torpedoes struck.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ss WILLIAM A. MCKENNEY



Built 1916 Newport News, Virginia
6256 tons
5th October 1942
U-175

Cargo consisted of some 3000 tons of bauxite ore and general cargo.

Sunk between British Guiana and Corocoro Island

1 dead, 34 survived. Sunk by Uboat shelling after initial torpedo attack.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ss PREDSEDNIK KOPAJTIC
1928 - Clyde SB & Eng Ltd, Port Glasgow
1798 tons
21 September 1942
U-175

Sunk off BG with the loss of three crew. 25 survived.

On a voyage from Trinidad to Demerara with ballast. She caught fire and sank after a second torpedo hit her, the first attempt missed.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CITY OF RIPON (ex LEPANDO)



Built 1915 by Russell & Co, Port Glasgow
6368 tons
11 November 1942
U-160
90 miles northwest of Georgetown, British Guiana

On a voyage from Port Said to Capetown then Trinidad and New York

Reported with 2000 tons of sand as ballast. 56 died and 22 survived. She was hit with one torpedo which disabled her and then finished off with two further torpedoes. Her master survived along with 18 crew and three gunners.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ss CITY OF BATH
Built 1926 W Gray & Co, West Hartlepool
5079 tons
2 December 1942
U-508

6800 tons of general cargo which included 2000 tons of copper ingots, 500 t of magnesite and 500 tons of chrome ore. On a voyage from Mombasa to Pernambuco and Trinidad then UK

3 dead, master and 37 others survived. Sunk northwest of Georgetown, BG.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ss SOLON II
Built 1925 W Gray Sunderland
4561 tons
3 December 1942
U-508

Cargo: manganese ore and 2000 tons of copper.

Voyage: Turkey to Capetown then Pernambuco and Trinidad and Baltimore

Sunk some 150 miles N.E. of Georgetown. At the time she was operated by the Ministry of War Transport. 75 died including her master Capt John Robinson. Seven survivors.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CLOSEST TO LOCATION?

ss MAE
Built 1918 Skinner & Eddy, Seattle.
5607 tons
17 Sept 1942
U-515

Reported to have water ballast.

On a voyage from Trinidad to Georgetown. Vessel operated by A.H. Bull & Co Inc

Sank 41 miles off the Georgetown Beacon (08.03N, 58.13W) . 1 dead the rest of the 40 aboard survived. Survivors questioned.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SUMMARY
Whilst we cannot be sure of the vessel in question, one thing is certain, she cannot have been sunk on the date that the salvage company thinks, nor by the U-boat claimed. Any of the above could be the ship and we'd be delighted to hear from Sub Sea Research if our efforts have helped ID their wreck."





Top photo is the one provided by Sub Sea and the one below clearly shows the photo is that of PORT NICHOLSON - the mystery remains!

 

[arctic]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Darren

Ref:"You may want to read a little more about Risdon Beazley Ltd. RB didn't go after precious metal cargoes"

Some one should of told Risdon Beazley that:


In an epic salvage operation the Risdon Beazley vessel Droxford recovered all but eight of the 400oz (gold) bars and delivered them to the Bank of England.

Extracted from: http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?31837

Also Niagra

Risdon Beazley’s salvage team re-Iocated the wreck and recovered 30 of the 35 remaining gold ingots, which weighed approximately half a ton. Risdon Beazley’s divers used what they referred to as the ‘Iron Man’, which was in fact an early atmospheric Articulated Diving suit, designed by Neufeldt & Kuhnke.

Extracted from:
http://www.seabreezes.co.im/index.p...zley&catid=6:letters-to-the-editor&Itemid=154

 

[Alexandre]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

don't expect serious salvors of such commodities as gold, silver, platinum and gemstones, let alone of base metals, to be posting original documents or sources thereof.

TR, I was not asking for the source... I was asking if the Blue Baron had been salvaged or not, back in 2009.

I am curious because, after all, the same photograph of the same ship appears both in 2009 (as being sunk in Guyana, with gold, diamonds and platinum) and in 2012 (as being sunk near Boston, with platinum) - and, in both instances, SSR claimed it was the "world's richest wreck" ever.

 

[Alexandre]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

So, you mean Greg lied, in 2009, when he told the press the Port Nicholson had been sunk off Guyana?

No, really, I find SSR fascinating. There's a pattern there all right - TR, did you ever heard of the "Notre Dame de la Delivrance", "one of the richest ships ever lost” ?

Was it ever found/salvaged?

December 2002 - WEST PALM BEACH - An 18th century shipwreck believed to contain a king’s horde of Spanish gold, silver and jewels more spectacular than the $400 million treasure recovered by Mel Fisher from the sunken galleon Nuestra Senora de Atocha has been found in deep water about 40 miles southwest of Key West.

Treasure hunters who’ve examined the wreck say their research indicates that it’s the Notre Dame de la Deliverance — a 166-foot, armed merchant vessel of French origin that sailed under a Spanish flag. The research includes surveys of the site by state-of-the-art remote sensing devices and divers, a study of historical records, and the discovery that a few silver items — including a crucifix, plate and some coins — were brought up years ago by other salvagers.

“It was one of the richest ships ever lost,” says Greg Brooks, 51, the co-manager of Portland, Maine-based Sub Sea Research Inc., which is conducting the search and proposed salvage effort. He estimates the value of the Deliverance’s trove could be between $2 billion and $3 billion.

Sub Sea Research recently followed its findings with a quiet trip to federal court in West Palm Beach to stake a claim under admiralty law. In October, Sub Sea won an order from Senior U.S. District Judge James C. Paine allowing the company to “arrest” the shipwreck and protect itself from modern-day pirates. The wreck is located “substantially” inside the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary but outside Florida territorial waters, according to court records.

The law considers wreck sites “submerged cultural resources.” Those found in the sanctuary — a federal trusteeship co-administered by the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the state of Florida — are strictly regulated. A permit is required to conduct a detailed survey and inventory of a wreck site. Additional permits are needed to recover and get title to the treasure.

Brooks says the law should now protect the company from other possible claimants if the wreck is indeed the Deliverance. The state has no claim, says Brooks, because the wreck is beyond the three-mile limit. Spain has asserted admiralty claims to lost warships in U.S. courts, but the Deliverance was privately owned.

The Notre Dame de la Deliverance, hired by Spain and owned by the French West Indies Co., which is long defunct, capsized and sank in a hurricane on Nov. 1, 1755, a day after departing Havana for Cadiz, Spain. On board were 512 passengers and crew.

The ship, named for an ancient French cathedral in the Normandy village of Lion-sur-Mer, was a top-heavy vessel equipped with 64 cannons, according to documentation cited by Sub Sea Research. It was hired by Spain because the kingdom was broke and could no longer build her own ships, and because the French and Indian War and the Seven Years War were diverting Spain’s naval resources.

“By 1750, [Spain’s system] that had for centuries shipped treasure back from the New World had virtually collapsed,” says R. Duncan Mathewson III, Mel Fisher’s former chief archaeologist who recently signed on as a consultant to Sub Sea Research. Mathewson, a member of the marine sanctuary’s advisory council, says Spain needed ships from other countries to transport treasure.

The Deliverance departed Havana on Halloween with a Spanish escort of seven or eight smaller, schooner-like vessels called zabras, according to Brooks’ research in Cuba and elsewhere. The ship soon met a fate that Brooks now believes was remarkably similar to what befell the Atocha and its hapless crew in surrounding waters 133 years earlier.

The hurricane struck the night after the ship left Havana, its eye passing over Havana to the southwest. The escorting zabras reportedly were able to survive the storm and scudded across the outer reefs to eventually anchor on the northwest side of the Marquesas Keys to ride out the storm the following morning, according to a research report prepared by Brooks and Sub Sea researcher Edward Michaud in July.

The Deliverance, blown off course, wasn’t so lucky. Sailors from the escorts who made it back to Havana reported the treasure ship foundered in roiling seas 12 nautical miles off the Marquesas Keys, rolled over and sank in waters too deep to allow salvage.

An incomplete manifest of Deliverance cargo that was owned by Spain’s King Charles III declares those riches to include 17 chests packed with nearly 1,200 pounds of gold bullion, 15,000 gold doubloons, six chests of gems, and more than a million silver pieces. That doesn’t count contraband or any valuable surviving belongings of passengers.

In contrast, the 112-foot Atocha’s approximate yield to date is 115 gold bars, 900 silver bars, 200 pounds of gold, 3,000 emeralds, 135,000 silver coins and less than 100 gold coins.

The largest treasure ever salvaged — worth more than $1 billion — was recovered in the 1990s from the 1857 wreck of the coal-burning sidewheeler S.S. Central America. That American ship went down off the coast of South Carolina carrying bullion and coins being brought back to the east coast by those who’d struck it rich during the California Gold Rush.

If the shipwreck found by Sub Sea Research is indeed the Deliverance, it capsized and sank in waters 180 to 200 feet deep, about 10 miles from where the Atocha was found in shallower waters in the 1970s by the late Mel Fisher.

Undersea search devices like side scan sonar and remotely operated vehicles have located an intact hull, two encrusted piles of ballast stones and what Brooks says appears to be cannons on the seabed. The wreck lies outside Florida’s territorial waters. “It looks like two wrecks,” says Brooks.

Mathewson is enthusiastic but cautious about the find. “It is important to emphasize we haven’t dated or identified any of the [sonar] anomalies yet, and we don’t know if it is the Deliverance,” says the marine archeologist, who has not yet visited the site or seen video shot by Sub Sea Research. “But I’m very excited.”

He says it’s promising that the wreck was a good-sized ship that appears to be pre-19th century. “We have side scan images of what looks like a well-articulated, intact lower hulled structure with full ballast,” he adds.

Mathewson says records indicate clear signs of a hurricane at that particular time. “The question is did the Deliverance go down in this part of the keys or go down in some other part,” he says. The ship was reported to have flooded and foundered in a very deep sea. “You would therefore expect the hull to be pretty much intact, and that’s what the images are suggesting. It’s not a vessel that’s scattered or broken up.”

The Deliverance has remained largely outside the shipwreck lore of the Keys. Even within the treasure hunting community, the Deliverance isn’t well known. Bob “Frogfoot” Weller, a longtime South Florida treasure hunter who’s written six books on the topic, says he’s never heard of the Deliverance.

“Just because they find a ballast pile, that absolutely doesn’t make it a treasure wreck,” says Weller, who lives in Lake Worth. “There are thousands of wrecks along the coast of Florida, but there aren’t that many that are real, serious treasure wrecks.”

Another dose of skepticism comes from Dr. John Broadwater. Broadwater is the manager of the Monitor National Marine Sanctuary off the coast of North Carolina, the site of the wreck of the Civil War ironclad USS Monitor. Its distinctive round turret was brought to the surface to great fanfare last summer.

“Treasure hunters are often wrong, and so are archeologists,” Broadwater says. “It’s so easy to go off and find something that has some of the characteristics of what you are looking for because you want so much to find it.” Still, more than one member of famed treasure hunter Mel Fisher’s team has found evidence about the Keys wreck site convincing enough to join Sub Sea Research’s team.

Lead attorney Guy E. “Sandy” Burnette Jr., a Tallahassee solo practitioner, says he’s brought aboard Fisher attorneys David Paul Horan of Key West and William VanDercreek, professor emeritus of Florida State University’s law school.

Burnette convinced Judge Paine that the find is genuine — and that an order protecting the wreck from rival treasure seekers was necessary — by showing him lead sheathing that once protected the hull from worms and was recovered outside the national marine sanctuary. The sheathing is the only item removed so far by Sub Sea Research, Brooks says.

The court order applies to an area that covers 18 square miles. About 90 percent of the wreck is located in the sanctuary, he says. Still, Burnette says, “we had to go to court to protect our rights outside the sanctuary.”

Sub Sea Research applied for an inventory permit in September. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration general counsel Martin Freeman, in Silver Spring, Md., confirmed the application is pending but declined further comment. An official at the marine sanctuary’s Key Largo office who is familiar with the application declined comment.

Still, Brooks and Burnette remain confident they’ve complied with the rules and will get the permit soon. “We’ve gotten very strong assurances that they won’t consider another permit for the area while ours is pending,” says Burnette. Brooks says that “once we get it in hand, and the weather clears, we’ll be back at the site.”

The marine sanctuary rules, which evolved from Mel Fisher’s protracted and ultimately successful legal battle with Florida over the right to the Atocha treasure, allow private salvagers to work wrecks on public property as long as the public’s interest in historic preservation is protected.

Generally, that means commercial salvagers like Sub Sea Research can obtain legal title to valuable items such as bullion, coins and gems deemed by archeologists to be of no special historical interest. The public would own any unique artifacts. But because the marine sanctuary’s rules of ownership are inexact, the potential remains for litigation over each item if and when treasures of disputed ownership are hauled from the wreck.

Before he hunted sunken treasure, Brooks built swimming pools for a living. About a decade ago, after 19 years in that business, he cashed out to find his fortune. Brooks’ principal partner and fellow investor is John Hardy, a former National Aeronautics and Space Administration engineer who currently runs a La-Z-Boy Furniture Gallery in South Portland.

Brooks says he’s personally spent a million dollars so far in the hunt for treasure that he believes has led him to the Deliverance. He’s helped make ends meet doing salvage work for insurance companies. Brooks, who is married and has a 15-year-old daughter, has plans to create a shipwreck museum and aquarium in Portland.

Until late June, when they first identified the wreck in the Straits of Florida as the Deliverance, Brooks and his associates spent much of their search time in wreck-infested waters off the north coast of Haiti. It’s there that Brooks and his partners think they’ve made another stunning discovery — the ballast stones and anchor of Christopher Columbus’ flagship, the Santa Maria. The Santa Maria struck a reef and sank off Cap Haitien in 1492.

Last summer, Brooks was preparing to return to Haiti when Michaud, a Sub Sea researcher in Framingham, Mass., began turning up information about the Deliverance. “The more we dug, the more we found that fit,” says Brooks. So Haiti was off, and Key West was on.

While Brooks and his company are the first to identify the Keys wreck as the Deliverance, they are not the first divers to have visited the site. In the mid 1990s, Thomas Yerian, a Key West resident, was issued a five-year search permit by the sanctuary, but it later expired. Yerian could not be located for comment.

“It’s been found before, but nobody recognized it,” says Brooks. Or, perhaps, nobody’s had the resources until now to mount an expensive and hazardous expedition, and overcome the bureaucracy, to locate and raise valuables from the wreck site. Brooks began attempting to check out the Keys wreck site in 1998. Recent technological advances in underwater imaging devices, however, are opening up the search, he says.

Sub Sea Research’s primary recovery vessel is the 102-foot M/V Diamond, a converted U.S. Navy torpedo retriever that’s currently docked on Stock Island near Key West. Today, says Brooks, about a dozen people are employed by Sub Sea Research to conduct the search of the Deliverance and document it with TV cameras; more will sign on when salvage activity at the site resumes. Everyone is a subcontractor, working mostly on speculation for an agreed-upon share of any booty.

All 512 crew and passengers on the Deliverance were presumed lost at sea. But Brooks and Michaud now hypothesize that as many as 400 survivors used small longboats and gigs to reach Matanca Key, a spit of sand nearby. The site now is submerged and is named Rebecca Shoal.

Historians previously have reported that 400 Frenchmen were butchered and cannibalized by Calusa Indians on Matanca Key, or Slaughter Key as it was also known, sometime before 1775. Brooks says he’s since learned that a year after the Deliverance sank, a French governor-general in the Caribbean dispatched two French frigates and 600 French and Spanish sailors to the Marquesas Keys to enact retribution on the Calusas for their alleged involvement in the massacre of French seamen who had survived a shipwreck.

The French found the bulk of the Calusa tribe on Key West and slaughtered more than 3,000. The bloodbath, Brooks says, marked the beginning of the end for the now-extinct tribe and may account for Key West’s Spanish name, Cayo Hueso, or Island of Bones. That hypothesis may never be proved. But 40 miles away, the answers to other questions are lying in the twilight 200 feet down.

“The bottom is flat there,” Mathewson says. “There’s no coral growth. It’s kind of a silty sand substrate, and there won’t be any environmental problems with doing work on this site. If it’s the Deliverance, it’s pretty much just sitting there, waiting.”

 

[Darren in NC]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Now I remember why I quit posting before and resorted to reading.

Gregg blew it when asked about the PN. He mixed up several sources of wrecks when pressed by a reporter. He wasn't ready to divulge sensitive information before he was ready, but blurted out a mixture of references when pressed by a reporter. SSR also delayed/abandoned the Deliverance project due to the source informant. Yes, he was being evasive. And yes, Arctic, RB had exceptions to the 3500+ wrecks they salvaged and you post 2 to make a point. I have no vested interest in SSR and I know they have made many mistakes. Such is the nature of life, much less thunting. Still, fallible treasure hunters don't negate the authenticity of good research, which I believe TR has offered them.

I'll tell you what. Since you already have made your case (and are determined to prove it here without knowing any inside information), go ahead and spill the beans on every known treasure wreck you are aware of. Please tell us all the details and don't hold back anything. Feel free to include every scrap of information you have and name each source with 30 references, 7 witnesses (with full notarized signatures), full video coverage, an independent investigation report, and a note from your mother. Even then, I probably won't believe you.

 

[arctic]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Darren, 1st let me apologize for my sometimes forward and challenging nature (my wife says the same thing). I like you for the most part am only a reader, but when I see something that looks off color I just need to challenge those that are making the claims. Too often what is presented is pure BS and I am sure you like me are tired of these types of salvors. Some food for thought concerning SSR.
1. If you had conclusive proof that the platinum is aboard and if you had legal rights to the wreck, why the huge publicity campaign? I would get on with business, QUIETLY. There is a motive behind the huge publicity campaign, do you not agree?
2. If you had made an ROV dive and you had seen an object that you absolutely believe is a platinum ingot, what would you do? I know what I would do. I would create a plan to recover that object. Even with a small rov I could get a choker cable placed over an end of the ingot to lift it to the surface. The SSR ship with an ROV onboard is berthed in Boston which is only a day trip out to the site, and there has been plenty of good weather in the last year to allow this. Why have they not been back out and yet the ship sits at berth in Boston?

Maybe they really have something, but I am betting against it. Just does not smell right. Let’s resurrect this post at the end of the summer and see who is right. If I am proven wrong I am not too proud to eat crow.

 

[arctic]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120226/NEWS/202260342&cid=sitesearch

 

[Alexandre]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120226/NEWS/202260342&cid=sitesearch

I stress what I said previously: it reeks of scam.

Platinum plunder or fool's gold?

Greg Brooks, posing alongside the salvage ship Sea Hunter in Boston Harbor on Feb. 1, claims his Portland, Maine, company Sub Sea Research has found billions of dollars in platinum ingots and other treasures inside the wreck of the Port Nicholson.
The Associated Press/Winslow Townson

By Doug Fraser

[email protected]

February 26, 2012

An investor in what Greg Brooks insists is the greatest shipwreck treasure ever found would have to believe that up to $5 billion in platinum, gold and diamonds has been hiding in plain sight for 67 years and no one had any interest in recovering it.

In a highly competitive business where the truth is too often a movable target, Brooks claims his company, Sub Sea Research of Portland, Maine, has found billions of dollars in platinum inside the wreck of the World War II British freighter Port Nicholson, 50 miles northeast of Provincetown.

The 481-foot freighter was sunk on June 16, 1942, by a German U-boat as it was traveling in a convoy from England to New York. The ship took six hours to sink. Six crewmen died, but there were 85 survivors, including the captain. Brooks and Edward Michaud, the senior researcher for Sub Sea, say it contains billions of dollars in platinum ingots and other treasures and that the British, Soviet and American governments knew about the treasure.

Despite that the Nicholson wreck is located in relatively shallow water at 600 to 800 feet and that it is just a day trip from shore, Sub Sea has struggled for nearly three years to recover any treasure and has yet to penetrate the cargo hold where they believe it is stored. The company burned through the $6 million it initially raised from investors for the Nicholson project. Brooks is pushing hard now to get $800,000 more to retrieve at least one platinum bar, which he hopes will encourage more investors. He is hoping to be back on the site of the shipwreck by the end of this month or sometime in March.

But critics say Brooks' track record gives him little credibility and there's no proof he's found the vessel or that there is anything but auto parts and military supplies on board.

Take a number, Brooks says to his many skeptics, you'll soon be eating crow. "Once I have (the platinum ingots) on deck, all the naysayers, everybody, will sing a different tune," he said in a recent interview.

n n

Brooks, a former swimming pool installer turned Maine-based treasure hunter, claims that the bulk of the platinum gold, and diamonds lie in the Nicholson's No. 2 cargo hold, and as many as 30 boxes containing ingots are strewn across the ocean bottom surrounding the wreck. Divers using specialized gas mixes and equipment have worked other wrecks at even greater depths, experts say, and they wonder why, if the treasure is so close at hand, it has been so long with not even a single bar of platinum being recovered.

For example, in 1942, the HMS Edinburgh, carrying $68 million in gold bullion was torpedoed and sunk off the Soviet coast in 800 feet of water. Salvagers working for the British started looking for the wreck 10 years later. Work was interrupted by the Cold War, but in 1981, thanks to an agreement between Russia and Great Britain, divers cut through the vessel's armor plating and within six months of discovering the wreck they had nearly all the gold on deck.

Brooks blames bad weather, strong currents and equipment failure for delays in getting the Nicholson treasure.

The company's remote operated vehicle is too small for the job. It was built for inspection work, not salvage operations, Brooks said. It lacked the power to handle currents, to clear the debris blocking access to the cargo hold or to lift the heavy crates outside the ship that purportedly contain platinum ingots. And Sub Sea's mother ship, the 221-foot Sea Hunter, doesn't have the dynamic stabilization system incorporating computer-assisted navigation and directional thrusters that are standard in oil exploration and other research vessels to keep them in a stable position.

But Brooks faces a more fundamental challenge: proving to investors and others that the ship has treasure on board.

He declined the Times' request to provide documentation to back up his claims on the platinum. He did show a CBS news reporter a heavily redacted copy of what he said was a ship's manifest that mentioned the Port Nicholson and seemed to indicate that 1.7 million ounces of platinum were on board. Sub Sea has yet to produce a document Michaud said he discovered in U.S. Treasury archives that, he says, proves the U.S. government was expecting a shipment of platinum on the Nicholson.

Brooks, however, has released several Internet videos to make his case for the Port Nicholson.

The videos show a brightly colored sonar image of a submerged freighter lying on its side as well as close-up shots from a ROV that reveal lettering on the bow Brooks says spell out "Nicholson." He has superimposed lettering on the images to help viewers discern each letter through the hull's heavy encrustation of debris and marine growth.

Video footage also shows crates scattered along the ocean bottom around the ship that Brooks claims match ammunition crates the Soviets used to ship gold bullion on the Edinburgh. Using a weight gauge attached to the robotic arm of the ROV, the crew estimated the weight of most of the crates at more than 200 pounds. That's heavy enough, Brooks suggested, to be platinum.

"There's no doubt that on the next trip he (Brooks) is going to come back with something," said Michaud a Framingham resident. "These types of operations take an awful long time."

n n

Michaud's confidence does not assuage critics who claim that Brooks, like many treasure hunters, inflates claims to attract investors but has produced relatively little. And in at least three prominent cases, Brooks and Michaud didn't get their basic research right.

"I'm skeptical as a standard point of view about anything having to do with treasure hunting," said Jim Miller, Florida's state archaeologist for more than 20 years. "It's an area where there are lots of opportunities for being loose with the truth."

As state archaeologist, Miller kept tabs on a prior Sub Sea project in 2002 when Brooks claimed to have found the wreck of the Notre Dame de la Deliverance, a 166-foot French vessel working under contract with Spain, off Florida. Brooks said it had $2 billion to $4 billion in gold on board.

Now retired, Miller helped write Florida's permitting system that governs maritime salvagers when their wreck site lies in both state and federal waters. Although the permits require that the applicant submit primary evidence, Miller does not recall that Brooks submitted any. The federal government denied him salvage rights within the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, but Sub Sea was able to secure exclusive rights to the shipwreck in federal court when Brooks presented a piece of lead sheathing he said was from the bottom of the vessel.

"That's like finding a piece of tire on the side of the road and claiming you know what kind of truck it came from," Miller said.

His own investigation into the Deliverance failed to turn up any documentary evidence that any such ship by that name was ever anywhere near where Brooks was looking. "Could be there was a Deliverance somewhere, but I found no record of one being in that area," Miller said.

After making huge claims and generating a lot of publicity, Brooks' company abandoned the search for the Deliverance with little fanfare a few years later, said John Hallas, the chief of maritime cultural resources for the Florida sanctuary.

In 1995, Michaud claimed to have uncovered documents showing that a German sub had been sunk in only 41 feet of water four miles off Monomoy Island. As president of Trident Research & Recovery of Framingham, he entered into a joint venture with Sub Sea to find the vessel.

Michaud's story changed, however, as time went on. First, he said, a Navy plane had bombed the sub. Then, he said it had been sunk by a depth charge from a Navy blimp in 60 feet of water. Over the years, the original sub metamorphosed into a top-secret experimental vessel he described as "Hitler's Escape Boat" and code-named the Black Knight.

According to news reports at the time, the U.S. Navy said no sub had ever been sunk in that area, and the German government attested that the last broadcast of the original sub Michaud claims to have found, U-1226, came from the mid-Atlantic the day before it disappeared. Michaud claimed he had found the sub on sonar, but despite repeated attempts, it was never located.

Michaud also claimed he had found evidence that a Nazi sub, U-233, had sunk in Casco Bay, Maine. That was never validated, either.

"It is not in Casco Bay," said Harry Cooper, president of Sharkhunters, a Florida website on U-boat history with 7,600 members, including former U-2 captains and crew. German and U.S. naval records show the sub sank 1,000 miles to the east of where Sub Sea claimed it was located, Cooper said. And there was no credence to Michaud's story of a sunken German sub off Chatham, either, he said.

n n

Michaud replies to such criticism by saying, "I know what I do and the research I have."

He insists he has hundreds of pages of documents on the Port Nicholson that show the ship was carrying platinum loaded in Murmansk as a transfer from the Soviet government to the U.S. for a lend-lease payment. He would not show any documents to the Times, however.

Skeptics argue that Sub Sea's track record should be enough to warn off potential investors.

"Based on the facts, he's a non-producer," said veteran treasure hunter Burt Webber in a phone interview from the Dominican Republic where he has spent the past 40 years researching and finding Spanish galleons and other historic shipwrecks in partnership with the Dominican government. "What I say I found, I can document. The ones I saw pursued (by Brooks), these were all bedtime stories," said Webber, who admitted he knew little about the Port Nicholson or the treasure it supposedly contains.

The only treasure that most salvagers find is in the investor's pockets, said Filipe Castro, an associate professor of marine archaeology at Texas A&M University. He is highly critical of the industry and those who put money into it hoping to strike it rich.

"I think that treasure hunters look for a particular type of investor. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, if you know what I mean," Castro said. "I don't have a lot of sympathy for dumb, infantile, greedy, rich people. If they lose their money and come back for more, what are the treasure hunters going to do?"

Paul Lawton, an underwater search and survey consultant and attorney from Brockton, says he's been following Brooks' endeavors for more than 20 years. Based on news articles and archived pages from Sub Sea websites, Lawton estimates that investors have been promised treasure totaling more than $11 billion in various Sub Sea projects, but have received little or nothing for their money.

"This is just another one of many bogus treasure salvage tales they have spun to bilk hapless investors, as they have done nearly a dozen other times over the past two decades," Paul Lawton wrote to the Times about the Port Nicholson.

n n

Brooks insists the treasure on board the Port Nicholson is real, and that he will prevail over his critics.

He and Michaud say the treasure-hunting business is filled with risk — for those who venture far from shore to retrieve treasure and for investors who hope for a spectacular payoff but more often than not end up with nothing, or a souvenir. "Most of the industry is like that," Michaud said. "A lot of people get bilked. Even the good companies are risky."

Brooks declined a request by the Times to turn over evidence of any returns. Instead, he said that investors never really lost money in any of his ventures because their investments were rolled over into the next project. "Our investors are all still in it from day one. When we complete the project, they will be paid off handsomely," he said.

Even if he does find the treasure he seeks, he may face significant legal hurdles.

"Under the War Risk Insurance scheme, merchant vessels lost during the two World Wars became the property of the U.K. government if insurance was paid out," the British Department for Transport wrote in an email response to questions from the Times.

"The U.K. is therefore the owner of the wreck of the SS Port Nicholson. To protect our interest in the vessel and its contents, we are currently party to court proceedings in the U.S. and are considering our next steps."

 

[Darren in NC]

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Darren, 1st let me apologize for my sometimes forward and challenging nature (my wife says the same thing). I like you for the most part am only a reader, but when I see something that looks off color I just need to challenge those that are making the claims. Too often what is presented is pure BS and I am sure you like me are tired of these types of salvors.

Thanks for your words. I don't mind a challenge. In fact, it should be expected in this industry as, sadly, most sizable treasure hunting organizations I have been involved with are scams designed to live off the investor. It's not the challenge that bothers me. It's the sarcasm and arrogance that surprise me. This is Alexandre's (and a few others) tactic and while he offers great info at times, my desire to read anything he posts is quickly diminished once I see the package it's delivered in. I believe anyone can have a civil discussion - even if they strongly disagree.

If you had conclusive proof that the platinum is aboard and if you had legal rights to the wreck, why the huge publicity campaign? I would get on with business, QUIETLY. There is a motive behind the huge publicity campaign, do you not agree?

Initially, they were being quiet. It leaked out due to an aggressive reporter who caught Greg off guard. Once the word was out and a federal in-rem admiralty was secured, they disclosed more.

If you had made an ROV dive and you had seen an object that you absolutely believe is a platinum ingot, what would you do? I know what I would do. I would create a plan to recover that object. Even with a small rov I could get a choker cable placed over an end of the ingot to lift it to the surface. The SSR ship with an ROV onboard is berthed in Boston which is only a day trip out to the site, and there has been plenty of good weather in the last year to allow this. Why have they not been back out and yet the ship sits at berth in Boston?

I can't go into all the details of this, but trying to recover at that depth with no DP system is extremely difficult. Just setting up a three/four point anchor system at that depth consumes a great deal of time. The ROV they have is woefully inadequate and they are rectifying all these challenges. I believe SSR is not Odyssey and they have a huge learning curve moving from shallow water ventures to a deep water one. I agree that if it had been me, I would have tried a few other tactics to pull up an ingot or two. [/quote]

Maybe they really have something, but I am betting against it.

Indeed they do have something. Do they have the experience and competency to pull it off? Time will tell.

Let’s resurrect this post at the end of the summer and see who is right. If I am proven wrong I am not too proud to eat crow.

It's not a right/wrong challenge for me. I already know they have a great opportunity before them. I just hope it's not wasted. I wouldn't invest in SSR for other reasons, not because they don't have a genuine opportunity. I believe they should have approached the Ministry for Transport in Britain and worked out an agreement. As it stands, we may have yet another Odyssey/Spain situation that could drag on for years. Large recoveries (like the SS Central America) are not going to go unchallenged. Like it or not, agreements worked out ahead of time is the name of the game now.