Odyssey treasure will go to Spain!

[Vox veritas]

http://translate.google.com/transla.../01/31/cultura/1328046877.html?cid=GNEW970103

No comment!

 

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[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

http://translate.google.com/transla.../01/31/cultura/1328046877.html?cid=GNEW970103

No comment!

I do Greg may have to stay in cheaper hotels now
Ossy

 

[Alexandre]

Kudos to Spain and its relentless pursuit of justice and underwater cultural heritage protection.

Remember, this was never about the gold and silver. Maybe next time there is some people that thinks that they can make a fast buck on our ships and cargo, maybe they will have Odyssey's example of such a Big Fail will work as a sobbering thought.

 

[Alexandre]

http://www.abc.es/gestordocumental/uploads/Cultura/odyssey(1).pdf

 

[old man]

http://translate.google.com/transla.../01/31/cultura/1328046877.html?cid=GNEW970103

No comment!

Looks like the case is going to the U.S. Supreme Court from what I read. If not and I was Odyssey, I'd dump every last coin where I found in, in several hundred feet of water.

 

[blackbeard1717]

Being in this hobby I feel bad for the Odyssey crew all that time and energy. I can't believe that the Odyssey and Spain can't come to agreement. Museum with money going to spain or something to that effect.

 

[Darren in NC]

Kudos to Spain and its relentless pursuit of justice and underwater cultural heritage protection

Seriously? Do you really believe this is about cultural heritage to Spain? Really?

Oh that all politicians were so noble.

 

[Alexandre]

Kudos to Spain and its relentless pursuit of justice and underwater cultural heritage protection

Seriously? Do you really believe this is about cultural heritage to Spain? Really?

Oh that all politicians were so noble.

Of course I am not that naive. But remember the Juno and the La Galga case - if that's not being coeherent, what is?

 

[Alexandre]

Looks like the case is going to the U.S. Supreme Court from what I read. If not and I was Odyssey, I'd dump every last coin where I found in, in several hundred feet of water.

I bet they wouldnt dare to risk being held in contempt of court under criminal contempt...

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Kudos to Spain and its relentless pursuit of justice and underwater cultural heritage protection

Seriously? Do you really believe this is about cultural heritage to Spain? Really?

Oh that all politicians were so noble.

Darren there is more to it, the way Odyssey conducted themselves. Not having permission, Taking it from Just off the coast of Spain, Hiding out in
Gibraltar, A Spanish war ship with such historical importance to Spain.
The List goes on !
Politicians are like car salesmen, very noble
Ossy

 

[Alexandre]

Taking it from Just off the coast of Spain

Ahem... off the coast of Portugal, Ossy, from our Contiguous Zone...

 

[FISHEYE]

Its time to sell your Odyssey stock before it bottoms out.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Taking it from Just off the coast of Spain

Ahem... off the coast of Portugal, Ossy, from our Contiguous Zone...

Sorry Alexandre I forgot Spain and Portugal are different country's
Maybe that's why my wife keeps telling me what to do
Ossy

 

[Au_Dreamers]

OK since you keep trolling with these posts I?ll bite.

Well the translation is horrible and it is in the "spanish press"

Sort of like these press clips and Alexandre keeps reposting old news to stir the pot.

I simply believe that if the court lacks jurisdiction then the "opinion" of the court is just that, an opinion and we all know about opinions and butt holes....

It is also a U.S. constitutional violation for the court to enter an opinion in this matter, just like The Juno and Galga.

Alexandre on a personal note I hope in your "archeological profession" you do not operate so biased.
Some of the comments you make here are so immature and simple minded that I wonder if your "just educated" but not so smart. That or you DO post just to bait others, which then I would refer you to the USE agreement of these forums.

Can you honestly in your head conclude that OM was operating for a fast buck? Do you honestly believe that private sector salvage works on a fast buck? If so then you know nothing of private sector salvage and should really keep quiet until you learn some more.

If you truly do then?

Do you truly not realize the hundreds of hours, years put into research and search and recovery and the vast amounts of money for a salvage operation and even more for one the scope of OM?
Do you not understand the capital risks private sector salvage takes on?
Dare I say they have spent more in legal fees than you will ever earn in your lifetime?

It certainly wasn?t a fast buck.

We are not on taxpayer funded dive vacations that the end result is financially meaningless because we can?t just take more grant monies or tax dollars to continue.

Who knows maybe if OM can filibuster until we get the liberal constitutional violating politicians out of office a ruling will uphold the law, because it certainly doesn?t hold to the written law as is.

The sad thing is that Spain is being short sighted and will lose in the long run. Where they might have had future distributions of cultural materials from shipwrecks of theirs this will only drive more to "piracy".

 

[Teredo Navalis]

Doubt if the Supreme Court will hear this. It's hard to defend OM in this case for the following 2 glaring reasons: 1)it flew the coins out in the middle of the night like a proverbial thief and 2)it lied about the identity of the ship. After that, it was an uphill battle to gain any ground from the Federal Court. OM's biggest case it might win will be against the US government and the Wiki leaks information.

 

[Alexandre]

Can you honestly in your head conclude that OM was operating for a fast buck? Do you honestly believe that private sector salvage works on a fast buck? If so then you know nothing of private sector salvage and should really keep quiet until you learn some more.

Do you truly not realize the hundreds of hours, years put into research and search and recovery and the vast amounts of money for a salvage operation and even more for one the scope of OM?
Do you not understand the capital risks private sector salvage takes on?
Dare I say they have spent more in legal fees than you will ever earn in your lifetime?

"There are many types of treasure hunters, and to try to divide them into categories would be a difficult and futile enterprise. However, there seems to be a wide consensus that among the treasure hunting community there is only a small, silent minority, largely unnoticed by the general public, whose work is to find and rescue precious cargoes.

The larger, noisier majority of treasure hunters advertises its treasures in the press long before they have been found.

They are specialized in the hunt for the savings of potential investors. It reminds me of P. T. Barnum and his favorite saying: "a sucker is born every minute," when reading all the nonsense that finds its way to books and magazines. I remember reading in the 1990s that a treasure hunter was using a psychic to locate sunken treasures.

Stories vary, but the fact is that most treasure hunting ventures are not profitable and therefore most investors never see their money back. Why?

The following list is a contribution to the understanding of the complexity and risks of the treasure hunting business. Excluding the problems related to the conservation, marketing and sale of archaeological artifacts, successful treasure hunters must manage to:

1. Find reliable information about a valuable cargo shipped in a particular vessel that sunk;

2. Make sure that the cargo was actually loaded on that particular vessel;

3. Make sure that the ship did sink (beached ships were invariably salvaged);

4. Make sure that the cargo was not unloaded on a port before the shipwreck took place;

5. Make sure that the cargo was not saved (transshipped) right before the shipwreck;

6. Make sure that the cargo was not jettisoned right before the shipwreck;

7. Make sure that the cargo was not salvaged immediately after the shipwreck;

8. Make sure that the cargo was not salvaged at a later date;

9. Make sure that time did not damage the cargo;

10. Make sure there are no claims on the shipwreck or its cargo;

11. Make sure he has precise data to narrow the place where the shipwreck occurred;

12. Find the shipwreck (often the most difficult part);

13. Make sure that he actually found that particular shipwreck;

14. If he ever finds anything, make sure that the cargo is not spilled over too large an area;

15. Make sure that treasure hunting is legal, or at least that the local authorities are cooperative;

16. Make sure the country in whose waters the shipwreck lays is politically stable;

17. Make sure he has all the necessary means to salvage a substantial part of the cargo;

18. Make sure he gets away with destroying, or abandoning all non valuable items, which consume time and money, and are not accepted for sale by most auction houses;

19. Make sure he has safe port to disembark the cargo;

20. Make sure he has a good lawyer;

21. Make sure he has not spent by now much more money than he can make with the sale of valuable artifacts.

I borrowed these rules partly from a longer list written by one of the most effective of all treasures hunters, Robert Stenuit, who has found, rescued, and sold more treasure than we will ever know, with the help of COMEX, the French underwater contractor. In L'or ? la tonne, L'exploitation des tr?sors englouties (Grenoble: Gl?nat, 1990) one of the best of his many - and all very good! - books, Robert St?nuit defined a check list with 27 points and called it "Rules of the Game."

These are the 21 things a treasure hunter must make sure he knows before he engages in any operation of salvage of a sunken cargo. As a very intelligent and pragmatic man, he footnotes these rules with a very important factor: luck. Before even thinking about giving your money to a treasure hunter people have to remember that their treasure hunter can be honest in his intentions, vow to work legally, do everything "right", and still fail!"

Odyssey failed on this one.

Yes, they are very competent.

Yes, they did find this ship and it was a marvellous techical feat. But, in the end, they failed. I bet their shareholders are not that happy...

 

[ivan salis]

I say fine -- if they say it was spain's treasure on the sea bed when they found it -- then return it exactly to the spot it was found at and "return it" to the sea bed by dumping it over the side * -- then everything will be exactly were it was at before (spains treasure will then be exactly right where it was before ) no harm no foul , heres yer treasure -- and then spain can spend their time , effort and money to "recover" it for themselves * -- because no one deserves to obtain the work of others for "free" * -- opps , silly me , I forgot thats how spain got the gold and silver in the the first place -- by using free slave labor , working the local native indains to death mining and refining the gold and silver ( later on after they just about completely wiped out the local indains ) the spanish brought in slaves from africa to do the work -- yep I forgot its spain's "historical cultural heritage" to use other peoples labor for "free" and to get "free" gold and silver for no real effort on their part-- sueing folks is easy --just wave papers and flap yer lips .( ie be a BSing lawyer)

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Can you honestly in your head conclude that OM was operating for a fast buck? Do you honestly believe that private sector salvage works on a fast buck? If so then you know nothing of private sector salvage and should really keep quiet until you learn some more.

Do you truly not realize the hundreds of hours, years put into research and search and recovery and the vast amounts of money for a salvage operation and even more for one the scope of OM?
Do you not understand the capital risks private sector salvage takes on?
Dare I say they have spent more in legal fees than you will ever earn in your lifetime?

"There are many types of treasure hunters, and to try to divide them into categories would be a difficult and futile enterprise. However, there seems to be a wide consensus that among the treasure hunting community there is only a small, silent minority, largely unnoticed by the general public, whose work is to find and rescue precious cargoes.

The larger, noisier majority of treasure hunters advertises its treasures in the press long before they have been found.

They are specialized in the hunt for the savings of potential investors. It reminds me of P. T. Barnum and his favorite saying: "a sucker is born every minute," when reading all the nonsense that finds its way to books and magazines. I remember reading in the 1990s that a treasure hunter was using a psychic to locate sunken treasures.

Stories vary, but the fact is that most treasure hunting ventures are not profitable and therefore most investors never see their money back. Why?

The following list is a contribution to the understanding of the complexity and risks of the treasure hunting business. Excluding the problems related to the conservation, marketing and sale of archaeological artifacts, successful treasure hunters must manage to:

1. Find reliable information about a valuable cargo shipped in a particular vessel that sunk;

2. Make sure that the cargo was actually loaded on that particular vessel;

3. Make sure that the ship did sink (beached ships were invariably salvaged);

4. Make sure that the cargo was not unloaded on a port before the shipwreck took place;

5. Make sure that the cargo was not saved (transshipped) right before the shipwreck;

6. Make sure that the cargo was not jettisoned right before the shipwreck;

7. Make sure that the cargo was not salvaged immediately after the shipwreck;

8. Make sure that the cargo was not salvaged at a later date;

9. Make sure that time did not damage the cargo;

10. Make sure there are no claims on the shipwreck or its cargo;

11. Make sure he has precise data to narrow the place where the shipwreck occurred;

12. Find the shipwreck (often the most difficult part);

13. Make sure that he actually found that particular shipwreck;

14. If he ever finds anything, make sure that the cargo is not spilled over too large an area;

15. Make sure that treasure hunting is legal, or at least that the local authorities are cooperative;

16. Make sure the country in whose waters the shipwreck lays is politically stable;

17. Make sure he has all the necessary means to salvage a substantial part of the cargo;

18. Make sure he gets away with destroying, or abandoning all non valuable items, which consume time and money, and are not accepted for sale by most auction houses;

19. Make sure he has safe port to disembark the cargo;

20. Make sure he has a good lawyer;

21. Make sure he has not spent by now much more money than he can make with the sale of valuable artifacts.

I borrowed these rules partly from a longer list written by one of the most effective of all treasures hunters, Robert Stenuit, who has found, rescued, and sold more treasure than we will ever know, with the help of COMEX, the French underwater contractor. In L'or ? la tonne, L'exploitation des tr?sors englouties (Grenoble: Gl?nat, 1990) one of the best of his many - and all very good! - books, Robert St?nuit defined a check list with 27 points and called it "Rules of the Game."

These are the 21 things a treasure hunter must make sure he knows before he engages in any operation of salvage of a sunken cargo. As a very intelligent and pragmatic man, he footnotes these rules with a very important factor: luck. Before even thinking about giving your money to a treasure hunter people have to remember that their treasure hunter can be honest in his intentions, vow to work legally, do everything "right", and still fail!"

Odyssey failed on this one.

Yes, they are very competent.

Yes, they did find this ship and it was a marvellous techical feat. But, in the end, they failed. I bet their shareholders are not that happy...

Take Note, AU my friend
Even with your insults, I can understand you being upset with Odyssey loosing again, but it was always a matter of time as my good friend Diving Doc
use to say
Your comment on Spain being short sighted and missing out on future distribution Yer right that why the Fishers share every thing with Spain
They returned one cannon
Ossy

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

I say fine -- if they say it was spain's treasure on the sea bed when they found it -- then return it exactly to the spot it was found at and "return it" to the sea bed by dumping it over the side * -- then everything will be exactly were it was at before (spains treasure will then be exactly right where it was before ) no harm no foul , heres yer treasure -- and then spain can spend their time , effort and money to "recover" it for themselves * -- because no one deserves to obtain the work of others for "free" * -- opps , silly me , I forgot thats how spain got the gold and silver in the the first place -- by using free slave labor , working the local native indains to death mining and refining the gold and silver ( later on after they just about completely wiped out the local indains ) the spanish brought in slaves from africa to do the work -- yep I forgot its spain's "historical cultural heritage" to use other peoples labor for "free" and to get "free" gold and silver for no real effort on their part-- sueing folks is easy --just wave papers and flap yer lips .( ie be a BSing lawyer)

Same old, It's fine for you to keep it, but if we have to give back, WELL your killed, raped, Sounds like sourer grapes to me !

 

[ivan salis]

theres a old spanish saying -- nada por nada , nada por amore * -- nothing for nothing , nothing for love (free)-- it means --you get what you "pay for" --

it is both unjust and unfair to take anothers labors without payment for services rendered. -- its slavery or theft of services .

at minimum the salvors deserve to be paid the actual cost of "the recovery" to off set the expense incurred in the recovery * -- if not since the recovery was not "paid" for why should spain --unjustly gain from --"free labor" -- if no payment for services rendered is forth coming (before the coins are "turned over" or a % of the coins given over )--then the service of getting the coins from the ocean bottom and cleaning them up should not be given for "free" to spain --the "spanish" coins should be returned to the ocean bed "exactly" as they were found --and then spain can recover "their" treasure for themselves.-- since the coins would be right back where they were before "no harm, no foul" --everything just like it was before. --except spain now knows where to find "their" goods at (roughly)