Spanish ownership question on Shipwrecks that were captured

[Trez]

Just curious...and would like to hear if this is possible or has it happened before? and the legal side most importantly.
On a shipwreck where there were no documented survivers, only just a record of a general location of said vessel(s) as to where it was saling either coming or going etc...and since news traveled so slow back in those days...
Scenario...if lets say a Spanish vessel was captured and all specie/cargo both private and government owned were captured legally by an enemy of Spain...but during the legal capture both vessels sank while in taking control of and thus contaminating the wreck-site with both vessels...and then said wreck is found today with a contamination field filled with both Countries material from said wrecks...
How would the courts possibly view this? and who determines the rights to them? Could a case be made against Spain's ownership then?

Just a thought let's say English artifacts were strewn unmust the "Mercedes" debri field...could Odyssey then have proceeded this differently?

http://books.google.com/books?id=0p...BA#v=onepage&q=legal capture of vessel&f=true

I understand Spain "not abandoning" her shipwrecks per say...but just because Spain claims such in every case of a sunken vessel nowadays even without positive identification of that vessel and just basing ID on position and or cargo, I would think maritine law would have to come into act in some cases...and actually deny such claims.
I was just fishing

Trez

 

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[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Just curious...and would like to hear if this is possible or has it happened before? and the legal side most importantly.
On a shipwreck where there were no documented survivers, only just a record of a general location of said vessel(s) as to where it was saling either coming or going etc...and since news traveled so slow back in those days...
Scenario...if lets say a Spanish vessel was captured and all specie/cargo both private and government owned were captured legally by an enemy of Spain...but during the legal capture both vessels sank while in taking control of and thus contaminating the wreck-site with both vessels...and then said wreck is found today with a contamination field filled with both Countries material from said wrecks...
How would the courts possibly view this? and who determines the rights to them? Could a case be made against Spain's ownership then?

Just a thought let's say English artifacts were strewn unmust the "Mercedes" debri field...could Odyssey then have proceeded this differently?

Trez

Interesting question Trez, "Legal capture this is were you problem
lies.
Legal by who terms or country. So if Iraq captures the USS Enterprise is that legal
Spain has never abandon its ship wrecks, it just didn't have the technology or resources at the time.
ship's close to shore were salvaged as best the could at the time.
Elizabeth Tudor encouraged Piracy and she was the head of England at the time, International law or your own.

Ossy

 

[Teredo Navalis]

Actually good answer, Ossy. The real answer is "it depends how motivated Mr. Gould is at the time".

 

[aquanut]

Trez,
Cool Theory! Seems like the Mercedes was beaten?captured (what's the difference?) by the English and scuttled/blown to bits (sent to the bottom) gee, it looks to me like the English now owns the wreck as a spoil of war! Right?
You can bet, when I capture the ship it, will belong to me and my partners, as will every thing under or on top of it! I don't need the help of governments...
A

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Interesting, a trophy obtained by a Spanish Royal Decree that Spain owned the country of origin, taken by ''force', is taken by another country, where again an English Royal decree states that it can be taken by force ---------

Hmmm

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Crow]

Hello All

interesting question and good answers. Who has the ownership of any cargo?

Spain, English like two vultures fighting over the spoils. I believe the ownership should belong to the counties that the orginal treasure was stolen off. Spain complains thier shipwrecks are be looted. But truth of the matter Spain gained most of that wealth from an illegal occupation of the countries they invaded and plundered and butchered for over 400 years. So I think it is massive insult for South American countries that lived under the yoke of Spain or any other occupying counties to claim the cargo other than it orginal country it was stolen from.

The gold was not taken from them through trade but systematically robbed by colonial powers over 400 years.

Some what like a theif complaining he had his ill gotten gains stolen.

Spain as well as many colonial powers have to this day have never paid any restitution for the damages done top those countries during colonial occupation.

And it is total insult for any archeologist to stand up and claim a holy than vow attitude that it is a cultural artifact for Spain or other old worlds nations.

If anything it should belong the millions of people living in poverty in South America, The real victims in all this greed.

My 2 cents

Crow

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Hello All

interesting question and good answers. Who has the ownership of any cargo?

Spain, English like two vultures fighting over the spoils. I believe the ownership should belong to the counties that the orginal treasure was stolen off. Spain complains thier shipwrecks are be looted. But truth of the matter Spain gained most of that wealth from an illegal occupation of the countries they invaded and plundered and butchered for over 400 years. So I think it is massive insult for South American countries that lived under the yoke of Spain or any other occupying counties to claim the cargo other than it orginal country it was stolen from.

The gold was not taken from them through trade but systematically robbed by colonial powers over 400 years.

Some what like a theif complaining he had his ill gotten gains stolen.

Spain as well as many colonial powers have to this day have never paid any restitution for the damages done top those countries during colonial occupation.

And it is total insult for any archeologist to stand up and claim a holy than vow attitude that it is a cultural artifact for Spain or other old worlds nations.

If anything it should belong the millions of people living in poverty in South America, The real victims in all this greed.

My 2 cents

Crow

Spain has not had control of any of it's south and north American colonies for 200 years. These country's are rich with natural wealth.
Look at Brazil's economy it has over taken England economy! Spain only took a very small amount of its natural wealth.
I agree they were badly treated, but it was white man decease's that caused most of the damage.
When Rome conquered Spain and controlled it for 300 years and made slaves of the native people and stole Spanish gold with Spanish salves working
the mines, any difference
Unfortunately the human race has been doing the same for thousand of years, the Aztecs, Mayan, ect .Were doing exactly the same raiding each other
and then cutting up their enemy's for human sacrifice.
There is poverty in the USA there is poverty in Spain and all over the world. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer , nothing's change.
Ossy