Apr 18, 2012, 01:15 PM
Credit is given where credit is due.
I can't imagine a better team. Good luck Jason & Steve. I hope I get to see you in the Bahamas. Dell
Apr 18, 2012 01:15 PM
Apr 19, 2012, 11:34 AM
No News, is not good news. I understand the PM has made a call for elections. When this happens Parliament adjourns and every body goes home. The focus will be on campaigning, and waiting until after elections to see who still has a job. Issuing salvage permits won't be a priority.
I would guess that Mike, has done all he can do and is now caught in the crossfire. Hopefully, this does not end up an embarrassment for him. His heart and mind appears to be in the right place. I hope he makes it to the Treasure Hunters Annual cookout so we can meet him. Dell
Apr 19, 2012, 02:41 PM
This was posted on another thread, but is certainly applicable to this one....
Admiralty Law, nor the Law of Finds, were never set up with shipwrecks in mind, but for other ships to render aid to vessels in distress, without liability, and with a mechanism for reward for that aid.
The Law of Finds was simply for items found on beaches or floating, for a entity finding the cargo, to have a mechanism for a reward for the recovery. Before this, the owners would typically just go and take the items back. Currently, the Law of Finds requires for a finder to bring the recovery physically into the Courts possession, turn the recovery over to the Court for disposition, and the Court administrates the claims against the recovery. It is relevant to understand that the Law of Finds specifically is set up to administrate a fee to the salvor for the recovery, not the recovery itself, so technically, the recovery is actually the property of the Court. The owner has the option to pay the fee with the recovery, but this is not automatic. Historically, the Admiralty Court auctioned off the recovery, and the finder was paid from the proceeds of the auction, and that mechanism is still in place.
The laws of sovereignty apply worldwide, with many laws such as UNCLOS governing the International waters and charter States. I cannot see how any member State, including the Bahamas, which is still part of the Commonwealth, ignore sovereignty and comity.
What is very interesting is under the Admiralty Law, and Law of Finds, only what is physically in the Courts jurisdiction, or brought into the Courts possession, can be administrated by that Court. Hence an Admiralty Arrest in International waters has little or no value, and currently, little means or avenue of enforcement.
Apr 19, 2012, 02:47 PM
The Bahamas, has not been a part of the commonwealth for more than 25 years. They are an Independent nation. Dell
Apr 19, 2012, 03:23 PM
Sorry but the Bahamas are not independent.
Bahamas Government Information
Apr 19, 2012, 03:37 PM
As an independent, sovereign nation, the Bahamas are a voluntary member of the Commonwealth of Nations which recognizes the Queen as Head of State.
Apr 19, 2012, 04:13 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Darren. I certainly don't advise any one to attempt to salvage shipwrecks in the Bahamas, thinking that British admiralty law prevails. Fox hill prison is not a tourist destination.
Yes, I used to be invited, and attend the Queens birthday party in Nassau, in recognition after their Independence. Dell
Apr 20, 2012, 10:37 AM
Wow, I was off on that one! Thanks for sorting me out...I was thinking the relationship was much more formal than it is.
Apr 20, 2012, 11:43 AM
da book worm--researcher
it keeps the weak pocket folks from trying to game the system -- have to post up a $100,000 means only the "serious' players can try to play -- this isn't some nickle and dime poker game here folks --serious "up front" money is needed to apply for and score one of these permits . - big risk , for big rewards
Apr 20, 2012, 12:44 PM
The Bond issue is an unacceptable barrier for most investors. A 10%- bond investment might be doable, but the. bonding companies want 100 percent collateral. They consider the risk extremely high. Hopefully, the Bahamas will waive this requirement? Dell
Last edited by Dell Winders; Apr 20, 2012 at 12:48 PM.
Apr 20, 2012, 03:35 PM
The bond is like any other construction type bond, its really insurance, so it really isnt that bad, depending on how many you have had, and your record on payout. As an example, for me to get the $100K bond, it was about $780.00, check with a local contractor to see if they want to team up, or just get a construction bond...$100K is $100K
Last edited by AUVnav; Apr 20, 2012 at 03:38 PM.
Apr 21, 2012, 11:55 AM
Underwater Heritage Rescue Diver
Yes, and if you follow the prescribed rules it will never be used anyways. There are so many conspiracy theorists who think everyone is out to get them. This is simply a way for the Bahamas to protect themselves against wrong-doing. If you aren't intending on doing anything wrong, this shouldn't scare you at all. And the monthly payments on the bond are well within most respectable salvage companies budgets. I have found the whole permit application process to be quite open even to the smaller companies. If you get one of the 5 permits, funding will NOT be an issue for you, nor will the $100K bond payments. You'd be crazy not to at least try in my humble opinion. We spent a LOT of time on the application and putting the research and the team together, but we were out very little money to actually have our name in the hat. A very small price to pay for the potential rewards....but to each his own.
I have had communication with Mike Pateman yesterday and today and he is moving forward with the applications as planned right now. He made no mention of the elections having any effect on the permitting process, but I didn't specifically ask either. I'm hanging in there hoping for the best.
Apr 21, 2012, 01:11 PM
Jason, I'm happy you have contact with Mike, thanks for keeping us posted. There hasn't been any news posted in weeks so there is bound to be a bit of curiosity and speculation about the unknown.
In my life, politics always interfere with something I think is good. A call for elections before the permits have been issued is a concern. Hopefully, Mike will officially post an update here and put those concerns to rest.
For me, This has been a long a waiting game (over 3 years now) and I am not near as young as you., As you say, all we can do is hope for the best. Dell
Apr 23, 2012, 08:20 AM
Underwater Heritage Rescue Diver
According to "other sources" in the Bahamas, the lifting of the shipwreck salvage moratorium is complete and will not be affected by the elections. Also, most seem to think that even with elections, the current party will stay in power as they are very popular. Also, even if power is shifted, the new government would have to specifically repeal the salvage leases before they were awarded, and it is not likely a big enough issue to most to warrant this type of action.
In short, nobody in the Bahamas seems concerned at all as far as permitting is concerned. This is not from Mike himself, but from my Bahamian partners who are "in the know".
Apr 23, 2012, 02:39 PM
There is no doubt permits will be issued. It's just a matter of time. The question is, how much time? Dell
Apr 23, 2012, 04:43 PM
In the mean time, let's estimate how many of the applications want to search the Maravilla site. I would say at least half of the dozen or so applied for.
Apr 23, 2012, 08:55 PM
sorry guys, i have lots of info to update. licences will be issued soon. I have been crazy busy, actually in Florida right now meeting with a bunch of people. Will post later.
Apr 23, 2012, 09:06 PM
Apr 24, 2012, 12:01 AM
Thank you for the encouraging news, Mike. You have been missed. Will you be able to join us at the 4th Annual Treasure Hunters cook out, on Saturday. We would love to meet you. Dell
Originally Posted by bahamamike
Apr 24, 2012, 03:56 AM
Originally Posted by bahamamike
What about the National Park area?
Originally Posted by Chagy
Search tags for this page
bahamas shipwreck permits
bahamas treasure hunting
bahamas' scavenger hunt
michael pateman bahamas
no hear no see no speak
treasure hunting in the bahamas
treasure salvage bahamas
Click on a term to search for related topics.