$1 billion Treasure Hunt- Ecuador wreck

[mad4wrecks]

I tried to copy and paste the article but it was rather lengthy-6 pages online and 2 1/4 pages in Sunday's Orlando Sentinel.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-treasure0806oct08,0,2944247.story

 

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[FISHEYE]

plus check out the video thats in the article in the Orlando Sentinel mullet wrapper newspaper site.

 

[Darren in NC]

Great article, Tom. I appreciate the reality check included with finding treasure. Sounds like the mother lode isn't going to reveal itself without a fight!

Godspeed,
Darren

 

[ScubaFinder]

Incredibly informative to a guy like me, thanks Tom. $20K per day explains a lot of why only the big slavage companys can do this stuff, and why many of them go broke. I like the idea of a group of guys with day jobs hitting the water on weekends See you guys weekend after next...

Jason

 

[mariner]

Thanks for the heads up, Tom. This has all the makings of the greatest story since Mel found the Atocha. I wonder how well they have the rights tied up with the Government of Ecuador. Strikes me that I have read in the past about how difficult that can be, but I have no personal experience in that area. Incidentally, I like the way that Bob Marx played a helpful role in getting the project up and running.

Mariner

 

[Salvor6]

Don McKay could answer that. He worked in Ecuador about 18 years ago on the Capitana. At the time of division, the Ecuador govt. decided to keep everything and the salvage company had to sue to get their share.

 

[Chagy]

Don McKay could answer that. He worked in Ecuador about 18 years ago on the Capitana. At the time of division, the Ecuador govt. decided to keep everything and the salvage company had to sue to get their share.

I believe Ecuador was offering the Treasure hunters 10% so thats why they had to sue and because of them it changed to 50%-50%

All the best,

Chagy........

 

[Patrimony]

I have officiated over the last two treasure divisions held over the past few years with the Ecuadorian Government involving coins and artifacts found at Santa Clara Island. Everything is done honestly and fairly and the government honors its contracts with foreign investors. The division is 50/50 and takes place within 90 days of requesting one. All the stories about being cheated and corruption are rubbish. The problems past treasure hunters have had have been brought upon themselves for either not following the easy terms of their own contracts or after having been caught stealing things.

JRuth

 

[mad4wrecks]

Oh it's Joel Ruth, the 'archaeologist' that has Robert Westrick and so many others in an uproar over on Sub-ARCH!

 

[Patrimony]

Well then let us clarify a few things. First, I have never either met or spoken to a Mr Westrich and am not even sure who or what he is exactly and so I am not even sure how he pretends to even know anything about me or my background or prior experience. I have never sold any coins or anything else on EBAY either.

Second: I have never represented to anyone that I have a degree in marine archaeology nor am registered as such although am qualified to be registered should I ever renounce commercial practices.

Under the guidelines of the State of Florida, Dept of Historical Resources, in order to be qualified and recognized as a marine field archaeologist in the state one has first to meet several criteria: Hold a degree in marine archaeology or history or anthropology; have been published and have three years of prior field experience under the direct supervision of another person who is already qualified and recognized by the State as a marine archaeologist.

Having already achieved and met all of these criteria by 1996 with also over 3000 hours of logged on site diving experience behind me, Dr Jim Miller of Tallahassee qualified me to be the field Archaeologist at Jupiter Wreck in 1996 and I retained those functions and responsibilities for the next three seasons until the site was effectively cleaned out and there was no reason to continue the work. I was then invited to lend my experience to the nascent industry just opening up in this country. I have also completed 36 Semester hours towards an MA at UCF since that time which is probably a higher level of formal education attained than Mr Westrich.


Anyway, while working as State Approved Field Archaeologist at Jupiter Wreck, I directed the activities of three different vessels simultaneously. I discovered the missing part of the wreck and carried the excavations another 2000 ft out to sea. All of this is State Record so if anyone disputes it,go read the file in Tallahassee. I recall receiving a few letters from the State commending me for the quality of the work at Jupiter Wreck and never one complaint. Also, while Did not study at Texas A & M,I bet I can teach a lot of their fresh grads a thing or two about reality in the field.

In the beginning I used sextant and beach markers to plot our positions and plot the base maps but later shifted to computer software and GPS in mid 1997. I wrote the annual reports each year for the State, compiled statistics on numismatic finds by type, condition and denomination and essentially all of my activities either exceeded or were in full compliance with the State Archaeological Guidelines which everyone who has ever worked in Florida are aware of. All artifacts were also handled according to the guidelines and I also, after each season, performed most of the conservation work myself....having learned, again, hands on from such greats as Doug Armstrong, whose recipe book on conservation of marine artifacts is now on disk.

Since leaving Florida I have maintained and applied these standards wherever I have worked since and have even educated the terrestrial archaeologists of the host nation, who had no previous experience or guidelines at all, in the techniques and procedures of Marine archaeological investigations and recoveries as are currently mandated by the State of Florida

Artifacts from two other sites I have been involved with and have personally conserved are now on display in this nations first Marine Archaeological Museum which opened in Salinas two years ago.

After reading your reply concerning the ridicule launched at me by this Westrich, did go to the Sub-Arch site and read the postings and only noted one rather derogatory posting placed by Westrich,whom I will again reiterate, have never met, spoken to nor heard
of before. Mostly, I garner from his rambling, he seems bitter and resentful because he says he is having difficulty repaying his student loans for which he otherwise comes across as acting as if he should be entitled to more than he has otherwise carved out for himself in life. I feel sorry for him but I don't know what that has to do with me. While bigotry by others towards others whom they don't even know has been and continues to be a problem in our country, it is particularly sad when it is seen emerging from persons who claim to be educated. Displays a real lack of objectivity and scientific investigative ability.

Meanwhile, if he has done anything worth writing about, he is free to contact the media to determine if they will find it worthy to write about or not. People want to read about reality history and they like to read about people who march through adversity to become winners....not whiners.

JR

 

[mad4wrecks]

Joel, thank you for your candid and honest reply. Rob is a really good guy and a very qualified marine archaeologist. I think he (rightfully) got ticked off by some recent stories in the press where it seems anyone who has salvaged a shipwreck was suddenly being referred to as a marine archaeologist.

The only thing that dismayed me was this line: "......qualified me to be the field Archaeologist at Jupiter Wreck in 1996 and I retained those functions and responsibilities for the next three seasons until the site was effectively cleaned out and there was no reason to continue the work."

Hey Scott, there are still some goodies left on the San Miguel Archangel right? Right?

 

[FISHEYE]

If the jupiter site has been all picked over,maybe its time to look further out,like joel said.



"I discovered the missing part of the wreck and carried the excavations another 2000 ft out to sea."

I wonder if i qualify to be a archie,i have a degree in oceanography,im a pro photographer,i have cameras that no real archie could ever afford.i have been published,books,newspapers,magazines all over the world.i have well over 4000 hours of dive time in 3 different named oceans.i found the remains of the shipwreck on 3rd ave in NSB that i fully documented that the state now has on thier master site file only that 90% is now its gone due to the city of NSB removed it an took it to the dump when they cleaned up the beach debris.maybe i just need a newspaper article to say im a archie

 

[mad4wrecks]

Yah Capt.Z, that was me. I caught the 2am repeat and my wife was madder than hell when I woke her up to watch!

By the way, this is a different San Miguel than the shipwreck down at Jupiter Inlet. The one we are looking for is from the 1715 fleet, (and like all of the 1715 wrecks, has not been postively identified)

 

[PhipsFolly]

WOW! Tempers, tempers fella's... let's all chill!!

Joel... awesome projects you have going in Ecuador... all the best to you man!! Keep your head down!!

Rob is also a good guy and has worked hard to get where he is... being a degreed Archaeologist is tough these days with all the government BULLSH*T that goes on and he has been ridiculed by other "institutional" Archaeologists for having worked on treasure wrecks... just like Duncan Matthewson had to deal with when working on the Atocha with Mel. It doesn't surprise me when people who spent the time and money to go on to get a degree in a particular field might get a bit bent out of shape when someone else receives the "title" without having gone through the pains of higher education... especially when you have a family to support too!

If it weren't for the governments involvement in things, I think archaeologists and TH'ers would have somehow had a decent working relationship... maybe someday... one can hope. And the last of my 2 cents worth... the media is to blame for many blunders, misquotes, and fallicies. They have been known to do some creative writing and reporting in the past so let's not let them get the best of us! I hate to use this statement, but in the words of an infamous individual I had the great displeasure of dealing with once in Los Angeles... can we all just get along?

Keep the faith my fellow gentlemen of fortune... Phips

 

[FISHEYE]

everyone here is a amateur archie,at least they cant take that away from us.

 

[Mackaydon]

In Ecuador, Rob McClung, my partner, found the Capitana which was then salvaged off my boat, the R/V Explorer. While there, we faced a total of five presidents, at one time three claimed the office. The original deal the government offered was certain % "in kind" Ecuadoran bonds for 10 years based on the intrinsic value only (market value of the metals). For some reason, that didn't seem reasonable. After some negotiations and procedures initiated by one of our Ecuadoran partners, the division was changed to 50-50 of certain assets. Other assets, like the remains of the ship itself remained 100% with the Ecuadorans. Our side 'divided the pie' then the Ecuadorans took their choice. That 50-50 division law we created them became the incentive for many to follow us in the pursuit of other wrecks.
Joel was with us in both Ecuador and at Jupiter where we returned to after salvaging Capitana. He did outstanding work for us, the government of Ecuador and the State of Florida.
Don.....

 

[Patrimony]

Thank you for the nice compliment Don. Things have changed a lot for the better in Ecuador since those times. The officials are very supportive of our work these days and want us to succeed and no one is trying to defame, sabotage us or shut us down as was the case back in 97. We have a good working relationship with everyone. Trust has grown. When we go out to the site on two week trips to work we only have two Navy frogs along and one Cultural Patrimony Archaeologist on board. Everyone is buddy, buddy and we have a good time of it. Gone are the days of strip searches of divers coming up, guys with carbines looking over your shoulder while you work and a gun ship parked 1000 ft from your boat watching. JR

 

[Mackaydon]

JR:
Good to hear the going is easier than before. Ah, yes! Those gunboats. But recall, we were told they were with us to protect us. (Yeah, right.) I do recall that gunboat crew ate up 3 months of OUR provisions in about 1 month. One of many other incident of note to remember--with a smile: The claim by another leaseholder in the area that, at night, we would scuba five miles underwater into his lease area and salvage coins from a galleon that he claimed was in his area-- one that he could never find.
BTW, what ever happened to the Ecuadoran share of our salvage?
Best,
Don......

 

[Patrimony]

Don, About half the Ecuadorian share of the Capitana treasure has now been on display for the past three years at the new Maritime Museum which is located on the water front blvd/malecon in Salinas. It is the first museum in Ecuador which combines an exhibit of precolumbian artifacts with those colonial. I felt proud when I walked in there the first time and saw the some of the coins and artifacts on display which I had handled in the Salinas Base lab years before along with still others which I had cleaned up for Roberto Aguirre from the Santa Clara/Isla Muerte Consolacion wreck site. The regional director of Cultural Patrimony tells me the rest of the stuff is still in the Central Bank vault awaiting the day when future museums will be established to display it.

Unfortunately, the former director of the Museum until a few weeks ago, H Veliz, (who is/was also a close friend of another famous treasure hunter from Florida who shall remain nameless but who was also about the last person to be seen with the guy in late August this year before he went missing), fled into hiding just minutes before Interpol and the National Police swooped in to arrest him for alledgedly being a ringleader of an international artifact traficking cartel, as the police and newspapers have called it. After kicking his door in they confiscated his computer and also recovered part of the missing Central Bank gold hoard of priceless indian burial masks and artifacts which vanished in a heist staged during an arson of the Central Bank Museum to hide the crime, years back. Was all over the papers last month.

Like I said...Ecuador is changing.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Sheesh Pat--: I suppose that I should be glad that I am operating out of Mexico. Since I never do anything illegal, but it has been an education, sometimes in frustration..

I do not think that they ever have done anything with the little Mayan temple that I found and duly reported, I would love to perform a legal dig on it.

As for the WW-2 German submarine, I guess that it too is forgotten, even by Mackaydon sigh.

You want a Manila Galleon to work on in Costa Rican waters?

Tropical Tramp