Repatriation of artefacts

[AUVnav]

Inspired by the success of its Mediterranean neighbors Italy and [URL="http://topics.sacbee.com/Greece/"]Greece, Turkey is taking a more aggressive stance toward its claims, many of which were first made decades ago.....

LOS ANGELES[/URL] -- The government of Turkey is asking American museums to return dozens of artifacts that were allegedly looted from the country's archaeological sites, opening a new front in the search for antiquities smuggled out of their original countries through an illicit trade.
The J. Paul Getty Museum, the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, the ClevelandMuseum of Art and Harvard University's Dumbarton Oaks Research Library and Collection are among the institutions that the Turkish government has contacted, officials say.
Turkey believes the antiquities were illegally excavated and smuggled out of the country after the passage of a 1906 law that gave the state ownership of antiquities in the ground.
Inspired by the success of its Mediterranean neighbors Italy and Greece, Turkey is taking a more aggressive stance toward its claims, many of which were first made decades ago.
"Turkey is not trying to start a fight," said Murat Suslu, Turkey's director general for cultural heritage and museums. "We are trying to develop ... cooperation and we hope these museums will also understand our point of view."
Turkey is presenting the museums with supporting evidence and has threatened to halt all loans of art to those institutions until they respond to the claims. Loans have already been denied to the Met, a Turkish official said.
American museums' antiquities collections have been the subject of intense scrutiny in recent years as evidence emerged of their ties to an illicit trade in artifacts found in archaeological sites around the world.
Confronted with that evidence, the Getty, the Met, the Cleveland, the Boston Museum of Fine Artsand the Princeton University Art Museum returned more than 100 looted objects to Italy andGreece, changed their acquisition policies and formed collaboration agreements that allow for loans to replace acquisitions of suspect material.
But new evidence continues to emerge, underscoring that the scope of the problem is far wider. In January, Italy announced that it had recovered an additional 200 objects and fragments from the Met and Princeton after they were tied to an ongoing criminal investigation of Italian antiquities dealer Edoardo Almagia and Princeton antiquities curator Michael Padgett.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/03/31/4381052/turkey-asks-us-museums-to-return.html#storylink=cpy​

more....

 

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[Diggit]

Come and get em..... we'll wait.

 

[VOC]

That is always an interesting conundrum, whether to return artefacts to their nation of origin.

The same ethical questions are more complex with shipwreck material.

Do the Atocha finds really belong in Portobello or Cartagena where it was partially loaded, Peru, Ecuador, Columbia and Venezuela where much of the stuff comes from, Havana where she left for home from, somewhere in Spain who owned the ship or in Florida were it was found and excavated ?

Each place could put up a good argument to host a collection if returning everything becomes international good practice.

Western Australia has one of the best Archaeological regimes in the world, but would they want to give up their Dutch collections ( http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/museums/shipwrecks/#shipwrecks/getting-here ) as they are more a part of Dutch maritime history than they are anything to do with Australian history ?

Difficult old question this one.

 

[bigscoop]

I think most of these "discoveries" should belong to the people who invested the time, money, and dedication to find them. In many cases the word "looted" has been allowed to be stretched way out of context. I think most of this politicking and legal bantering over "riches & wealth" is absolutely ridiculous and a complete sham to allow the legal theft of discoveries from the rightful owners....that being those people who invested the time & money and endured the risk and hardships along the way. Much of it would be better off in private hands.

 

[AUVnav]

Do the Atocha finds really belong in Portobello or Cartagena where it was partially loaded, Peru, Ecuador, Columbia and Venezuela where much of the stuff comes from, Havana where she left for home from, somewhere in Spain who owned the ship or in Florida were it was found and excavated ?

I think we are about to find out.....

In regards to the foundation, the question of origin has not been fully tested. Currently, the Italians, Greeks and others, have enjoyed success in the return of artefacts taken from their respective countries, the particulars of how those countries originally acquired the artefact have not been tested.
The Roman Empire was certainly vast, as was the Greek, and more recently Portuguese and Spanish. Territorially, each Empire was but a snapshot in time, and the artefacts associated with each, as well.
While artefacts, cities, and other items are 'associated', that is a broad brush. There are Roman ruins in Britain, but a claim in modern times is meaningless. One can note many discoveries in Britain of Roman artefacts, but at this point in time, much of the nature of origin has not been addressed. As an example, Roman and Greek artefacts are not considered by the peoples enslaved, captured, or under rule at that time.

Using your example, at that point in time, portions of South America were under Spanish rule. I think it a bad precedent to look at material origins as a foundation. This would open up claims for base metal and stone origins worldwide. That being said, there is virtually no case law in these regards. Peru would have to pursue a lawsuit in International of Spanish Court to repatriate what was removed from that area by Spain.
This is a much different beast than a Spanish shipwreck off the Florida Coast, the vessel and its contents are owned or administrated by the responsible party, most likely the owners of the vessel.
While this is difficult to detail, I would reluctantly add an example. I assume that my automobile that I purchased, I own. If my vehicle is stolen, and recovered, I do not expect that the labor entity that mined the material that made the wiring in the vehicle, would have a claim that the vehicle or that portion, be returned to them.

I would add that I have posted articles of repatriation as an example, and a matter of discussion, to what is happening in the world in regards to artefacts, especially with the recent rulings on the Las Mercedes, with potential relevance to past, present, and especially future recoveries of the Spanish Fleet of the Florida Coast.

Bigscoop..its just not that simple..If one has invested that much time and energy, then one should be prudent and include the potential owner. One cannot ignore the law, but should endeavor to make it work for all parties. What would you say to Dr Ballard, who discovered the Titanic, while others are selling off the artefacts, or to the people who's descendants owned the artefacts?

 

[bigscoop]

I said, "much of it" would be better off in private hands, not all of it. And "yes", the dedicated private sector who invested time, money & labor should be well compensated for the discoveries they have brought into the light, not persecuted and targeted and dragged through the courts. Just my opinion.