Wrecks most heavily hit?

[ou8acracker2]

I sure as heck would..mainly because its the right thing to do.
Im not in it for the money haha Im in it for the adventure. If I find stuff that could potentially show one wreck as something special, I would write it down. Just knowing that I figured that out all by my lonesome would be gratifying enough.

I need to get in contact with him and pick his brain granted he doesnt mind (feel bad picking yalls brain with Im sure are repetitive questions).

Im assuming most from those wrecks were coins and such, so religious artifacts not on a manifest would hint at perhaps contraband or maybe they just didnt list the manifest? If they were just high pointed items, youd think you could match it up to one of the ships manifests eh?

 

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[ScubaFinder]

It is entirely possible that you could match something up to a manifest, but what if it was in the cargo manifest for the Capitan...did it come from Corrigans and had fudged numbers, or did part of the Capitana end up at the anchor wrecksite. The many mysteries of the 1715 fleet can only be solved underwater in my opinion. We can debate and research until we are blue in the face, but until someone finds the item, or blows a bunch of holes at the cannon site, we won't truly KNOW. I think that is what keeps most of us coming back to the 1715 fleet year after year....several missing ships waiting to be stumbled upon. A missing queens dowry, hundreds of thousands of silver coins unaccounted for, and my own personal motivator...a uniquely unsolveable problem. :-)

 

[ou8acracker2]

These wrecks are alot like women who just wont close on the first or second dates...they just keep you on your toes, always some sort of a mystery but give you something to work with, never seem to make any sense, cost a lot of money, make you work your a$$ off, all guys are competing for it, and ya just never know when she might surprise ya.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Jason I concur! Yes pretty much with everything you've written.
Often some things aren't "spoken" of because sometimes one wishes others to "forget" about it.

Again it's a BIG OCEAN. As a salvor I can find myself looking at plotted data and let my mind trick me into thinking well there's treasure here and treasure there so surely there is treasure right here. But when you get on the site that “right here” becomes such a vast AREA of "possibility".

On a boat I use the visual of the engine hatch or in a home a floor tile. Mentally place a gold coin in the center, now measure out 18 inches. Effectively if the edge of your excavation hole was that “close” to that coin you might as well be as far away as 1 mile because you missed it. If you move your boat for the next hole more than 18 inches in the wrong direction you missed it again and may never get to that coin.

So in reality it’s a business of inches in a field of miles.

Take for example a banner year of 406 holes blown. Let’s say it works out to be 14,616 square feet of ocean bottom uncovered. Now let’s say Corrigan’s is 12,800,000 square feet. To “mow the lawn” at Corrigan’s it would take 875 ¾ seasons!!!

Now consider a dismal season like last year with 153 holes blown and you can see how that huge 875 ¾ GROWS exponentially!

Did the Spaniards get it all? History proves this not to be true.

Will we get it all? Not in our lifetime!

 

[ou8acracker2]

Au, that was a terrific post. Really puts the whole business into perspective.
Im now also going to quote you with the "it’s a business of inches in a field of miles." Haha I like that quote

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Thanks, in my head I was thinking debris field but if you want to change it to ocean of miles I'll take credit for that too!

haha np, "I'll be here all week"

 

[ivan salis]

what occured was they recovered more gold off of Echeverz''s vessels after the wrecks than the vessels had on their "legal" manifest in the first place * oppssiee the shipwreck recovery amount was way more than was"legally" manifested as being on board in total -- Echeverz and his son had some heavy duty explaining to do to the king and his accountants -- Uh allowing quite a bit of smuggling to occur on your vessels huh? -- ( king speaking) normally speaking your supposed to get less stuff off a wrecked ship cargo wize (less than the manifested goods ) but somehow you gained so much exttra cargo , that i got more than the full cargo amount listed on your manifest , would you care to explain to me , exactly how that occured ?, being you were the captian of the vessel and supposed to prevent smuggling from occuring on your vessel? -- (Echeverz and son thinking -- oh crap not good , not good )-- you could be sent to be a galley slave rower for smuggling and all money , lands and titles stripped as well.

some church related religious items may not be listed -- manifested items were normally royally owned items or personally owned items of private citizens and merchants that had to be listed for tax purposes --the king got a 20% tax on the value of personal property / trade items sent from the new world -- religious items belonged to "the church' and as such were not "personal property" but rather just travelling from point to point ( church religious item most likely were tax exempt much like todays tax codes are) --however since some wealthy "private" folks had personal religious items made of silver and gold that were shipped with or by them back to spain -- some religious article might be listed on the manifest since they were in effect "private religious" items

being personal jewelry worn on your person was also exempt for the tax - many wealthy folks had "money chains" made they were heavy gold chains made with each link of the chain being equal in weight and purity to that of a spanish gold coin --

 

[Booty Salvage]

Heavy gold dust was found on Rio Mar, I guess that would make sense

 

[ou8acracker2]

What was the point of carrying gold dust? Comin from a gold exploration geology family...it takes a crapload of gold dust to amount to much of anything. Seems like a waste of shipping space unless they had like massive jars full.
or did they?

 

[Trembull]

What was the point of carrying gold dust? Comin from a gold exploration geology family..

If they Didn't own the ship then the King would have applied tax to it.
Maybe it was Contraband
What If:
Back then they took the Gold dust mixed it with clay, Made there Clay Pots, Jars and Plates. But DIDN"T place the Clay items into there Kilns to cure/harden them. Then at there Destination they then just soaked the item into water separating them back apart to get the CONTRABAND Dust back. But the Ocean beat them to it, By Dissolving the clay after all these years..
No need to fling mud, I am new at this also
MY TWO CENTS
A Recovering Brain Donor

 

[ivan salis]

gold dust with it not being purified and made into bars very likely was being smuggled -- most gold being legally shipped was purifed and poured into bars and assayed and taxed (at 20% of its worth) assay numbers showing the purity in roman numbers and tax "paid" marks were placed upon the bars showing they had been "legally" processed and they were added to the "legal" ship's manifest of cargo being carried --so that when you returned to spain you could "legally" off load your tax paid gold off the vessel -- if you attempted to leave the vessel with ANY FORM OF GOLD and could not proved it was either tax exempt or that taxes were paid on it --spanish govt officals would have you arrested for "gold smuggling'

 

[ou8acracker2]

Hence it was easy enough to smuggle a gold vile of dust off the ship amounting to perhaps one coins worth. Easily found in rivers or streams as well.
Very good point Ivans.

 

[whydahdiver]

We found gold dust in small pockets on the Whydah.

 

[ivan salis]

yes a small bit of gold dust could be mixed in with a tobbaco in snuff pouch or such --as gold dust you could always later on claim you mined it out of a stream in spain * if caught with it in spain --something you could not claim if it was a gold coin or a illegal gold bar without tax stamps on it -- if caught with a coin or untaxed gold bar --and they asked from whom did you obtain this this coin / gold bar ? you were screwed .

 

[GOHO]

The manifest of Echeverez's Capitana plainly states there was Gold Dust onboard that ship......

 

[ou8acracker2]

So then back to my question of what was the point...

 

[ScubaFinder]

Not everyone traveling back to the old world was an incredibly wealthy passenger, some did come home poor. Maybe gold dust was all they had? Gold dust was also a common offering to the church, so maybe the priests were carrying it home to the pope from the many new world missions. There are a thousand ways it could have gotten on board, and a thousand reasons people would try to smuggle it, it is still gold after all.