1641 Plate Fleet information

[stevemc]

Actually they put copper and lead sheathing over a burlap cloth that is soaked with tar. The cloth is put on the tar, which is spread on the wood hull. Then they nail it in place. That is why you find the cloth pattern on one side. Amazing that people put out a story and don't know what they are talking about. That is the new way to do it.

 

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[ivan salis]

yep tarred cloth was used under the sheathing ..be it lead or later on copper ....the hull cover metal was pinned to the wooden hull with small nails ... about roughly the time of the American rev war ..1770 / 1780 era copper became much more commonly used as hull sheathing ...-more modern processing methods made copper sheathing more affordable ...copper being toxic to sea worms and also much lighter than lead once the cost factor came down made copper the better choice and it slowly squeezed lead out as a hull covering ...copper is still used in modern ship hull paints as a "anti foulant" to prevent barnacle growth and sea moss on modern steel hull vessels ( barnacle growth and sea moss rob a ship of speed by increasing drag on the hull)

 

[TRG]

Actually they put copper and lead sheathing over a burlap cloth that is soaked with tar. The cloth is put on the tar, which is spread on the wood hull. Then they nail it in place. That is why you find the cloth pattern on one side. Amazing that people put out a story and don't know what they are talking about. That is the new way to do it.

Not to dispute this very logical method Steve, but the pdf on the Margarita linked above says that no fabric remnants were found, event small bits jammed between planks that might have been expected were not evident. As the lead sheets are laid on like shingles so only part of the plate would be pressed against cloth, yet the pattern covered the entire plate on one side. Additionally, some spare plates found with the cargo stowed inside the vessel which were stacked and folded in half (and presumably never used) had the cloth pattern on one side. The laying of a paper barrier between copper plates and the hull was specifically mentioned as if it was an innovation intended to prevent corrosion, not a common practice.

Here is some text from Peter Earles book on the Concepcion:

"The preparation of the Concepcion was carried out during the winter of
1639-40 under the supervision of her mate, Francisco Granillo. The ship
had only recently returned from her last voyage to New Spain and had
in fact still been at sea when the contract was signed. She therefore
needed a complete overhaul and refitting. She was hauled down and her
bottom cleaned and, where necessary, re-sheathed with lead, to try to
protect her from the ravages of the shipworm which throve in the tropical
waters of the West Indies. All her planking and decking was scraped
down and re-caulked. Altogether 50 quintals of tar, 18 of black oakum, 12
of hemp, 16 of lead and two barrels of grease were used in an effort to
make the twenty-year-old ship sufficiently watertight to cover the four
thousand miles of sea that lay between Cadiz and Vera Cruz." [page 19]

I believe the hemp referred to should be rope.

 

[Sidcane]

Found after winter storm on east coast near st.augustine. ATTACH]

 

[TRG]

The storm just passed?

 

[ivan salis]

nice 0ld hand made blacksmith nail cross.... note the style of the cross ends on the small Spanish silver coin ..it will help ID the mint that made it ...some mints only made small cob type 1 reale coins in certain years ...date the coin = date the fleet / time frame the shipwreck was from -- knw the fleet lost --know which ships were lost in that fleet --

 

[TRG]

Took a look at a couple of nails with the XRF machine today (circled in red) - mostly copper, some zinc, a little tin, a bit of arsenic - so bronze likely. Was looking for lead and got just a hint. Might prepare a sample just for this to do a more comprehensive scan (sample should be flat for best result). Nail pattern visible with green circles. Anyone have width dimensions for "typical" 17th century bronze spikes? One was driven through where the timber is broken so the width can be figured by the impression even though the spike itself is missing. Cross section was square.

 

[TRG]

Borrowed "Hurricanes of the Carribbean and Adjacent Regions, 1492-1800" by Jose Carlos Millas (1968). A little old now but still seems to be a main reference on the subject. Attached images of the two pages on 1641. I don't believe the suggested track is accurate after reading Peter Earle's book, but the information and sources might be of some interest here.

 

[sphillips]

yep tarred cloth was used under the sheathing ..be it lead or later on copper ....the hull cover metal was pinned to the wooden hull with small nails ... about roughly the time of the American rev war ..1770 / 1780 era copper became much more commonly used as hull sheathing ...-more modern processing methods made copper sheathing more affordable ...copper being toxic to sea worms and also much lighter than lead once the cost factor came down made copper the better choice and it slowly squeezed lead out as a hull covering ...copper is still used in modern ship hull paints as a "anti foulant" to prevent barnacle growth and sea moss on modern steel hull vessels ( barnacle growth and sea moss rob a ship of speed by increasing drag on the hull)

Ivan, I have found a lot of pieces of copper on S. Hutchinson Island, so what period of ship building would they be. From?

Thx

Steve

 

[ivan salis]

likely its American rev era 1770 ish* to say 1870 -iron hulled ships became common post civil war --althought there still a good bit of sailing trade ships post civil war till the early 1900's era

 

[Bum Luck]

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If nothing else, it is a picturesque place to look for treasure...

......other four ended up against a cliff


Looks like one to me.