La Esperanza

Cablava

Hero Member
May 24, 2005
517
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I though we might try to out some information on this galleon together, here are a few details, I point out that these are not my findings but just general research on ther ship. as of today still not found.

1565 The first Manila Galleon sails from Manila to Acapulco.

June 1806 The galleon 'Magallanes" sails from Manila with its shipment destined for the King
of Spain and the Merchant Guild.

July 1806 Before even clearing the Straits of San Bernardino the "Magallanes" begins to leak
and is forced to turn back to Manila.

October 1806 The Manila government and the Merchant Guild purchase and refit the frigate
"Esperanza" from Don Pedro Huet for 50,000 pesos.

November 14 1806 The "Magallanes" arrives back in Manila and is unloaded. "700-800 bales of the most
select cargo" are transferred to the "Esperanza"

December 11, 1806 The "Esperanza" sails for Acapulco, heading south to first make a stop in
Zamboanga city.

December 14, 1806 3am The "Esperanza" strikes the reef at the Panagatan Cays and sinks. From
survivor reports.

The Cays lie 30 nautical miles due south of Mindoro in the Philippines and comprises of three small islands that are part of a submerged volcano's crater rim. The remaining portion of the rim has formed a classic lagoon surrounded by a coral atoll.

For most of the year, the prevailing winds are from the northeast, with average waves of 1 meter in height. The Cays however lie on the westerly typhoon route; more than 400 have passed over the area since records began.

The Cays lie between two shipping routes, down the west side or east side of Mindoro Island, and provide the makings for a classic ship trap. Ships from Manila, traveling down the west side on a southerly course, after clearing Mindoro Island and due to the lack of visible landmasses, would think that they were in open waters.

As appears to be the case with the Esperanza, lookouts and the crew would generally relax for a gentle sail. But the lack of vigilance meant that the Esperanza found herself on a collision course with the almost invisible reef of the Cays, made worse by the fact that they sailed through the area at night-time. So treacherous is the terrain that any ship not familiar with the Cays would stand a very high chance of foundering.

In estimating the potential value of recoveries from the Esperanza the following factors have to be considered:

As a direct consequence of the Spanish King's monopoly on trading, there were a maximum of two "Manila" galleons that sailed each year. These two galleons were responsible for transporting all of the Spanish governments' and the majority of wealthy nobles' and merchants' proceeds, from the Philippine territories to Mexico and then onwards to Spain.

As a result of the failure of the galleon "Magallanes" to undertake her voyage in 1805 and the fact that she was forced to turn back in 1806, the Merchants took the decision to combine the most valuable cargo from both the years' shipments into a single voyage i.e. the "Esperanza".

The salvage value predicted compares well with similar recently successful projects.
Although the cargo manifest has yet to be found, detailed evidence of coin consignment placed aboard the "Esperanza" before she sailed has been located.

In addition, the "Esperanza" would likely have been carrying porcelain, finished gold and silver jewellery art pieces, ivory crafts pieces, gold bullion/currency and a significant quantity of silks and spices.
 

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Cablava

Hero Member
May 24, 2005
517
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Here is a 3D of a potential target (over 50 targets have to be investigated)
 

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mariner

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2005
877
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Mike,

Good idea. I still have not had a response to the e-mail I sent to the group who are currently trying to locate and recover the Esperanza from the Panagatan Cays Reef area, but I am interested as to whether the potential target image you posted is from that group, and therefore whether you have any involvement with them?

Best wishes,

Mariner
 

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Cablava

Hero Member
May 24, 2005
517
17
Hi Bob

Yes the target is one of theirs but to date they have not found the ship, I have no connection to them other than they approached me for finance in 2002 I think. A very nice glossy brochure of what they had and what they were doing, I still have it somewhere.

Its interesting as I have not found any info other than theirs anywhere, although I must admit I have not spent much time on it.

They found three other ships the area Golconda a British warship sank in 1850 an unidentified steamer and the Francis Charlotte

Other than that I do not know much about them the CEO is Dempsey Pagan who I do not know.
 

Emma

Greenie
May 26, 2006
17
5
Paris, France
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
The "Esperanza" carried 500,000 silver pesos, all lost. I don't think there was a chance she carried any porcelain...
But she was not lost at Panagatan, but 500 km from there, many manuscripts of the time were wrong on the location.
One of the ship discovered there should be the "Marquis of Camden" lost in 1839.

Emma
 

Emma

Greenie
May 26, 2006
17
5
Paris, France
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
What is so funny Ole ?
Read first "Armada Espanola" from Duro...
And if you want to know more, send me a PM.
 

mariner

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2005
877
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The thread that generated this thread started with Grubstake describing a wreck he has found, presumably on the California coast, with four large cannons in 100 foot of water on one side of a reef, and a 1791 Spanish gold coin in shallower water on the other side of the reef. He thought that the size of the cannons suggested a large ship, so possibly one of the Manila Galleons.

Information suggests that the Esperanza, which sank in 1806 so might have been one possible identification for this wreck, sank on the other side of the Pacific, if not at Panagatan then not too far (500 Km) from there. I am very interested about just where she sank, and the reason for conflicting contemporary accounts, and hope that we can get to the bottom of that story, perhaps with Emma's help.

However, I am also very interested in the identity of Grubstake's wreck. We don't have too many wrecks of that vintage or earlier here on the West Coast. Hopefully Grubby can get to examine the cannons in the near future, which might help narrow the search, or even identify the ship, but I wonder if anybody has any ideas about which wreck this might be?

There are also the notes by Stefan about Spanish silver coins with dates of between 1800 and 1806 being found somewhere north of Point Reyes. These might or might not be from the same wreck. It would help if we knew whether or not Grubby's wreck is south of Point Reyes, which I suspect is the case, so we can separate these two projects. Can you tell us anything, Grubby? I don't think it will significantly help anybody else to find your wreck if we eliminate the upper half of California.

Mariner
 

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Cablava

Hero Member
May 24, 2005
517
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I have never heard of her wrecking on the US coast, however she is missing so she is somewhere, and there is a very small possibility she made the US. But survivors landed back in the Phillipines not the US, so the odds are in favor of the Orient. The exact position may not be known but we have three theries here ,

1/ "Panagatan" extensivly and expencivly searched over the last 10 years


2/ "Further north" This makes sense as the route was changed to travel West into the China sea then turn out to the Pacific. Hence she would have had to sail South the wreck on the "Panagatan" Cay"
From Manilla she would have headed North west into the China Sea.

3/ "US West Coast" I have no evidence nor have I heard of this until Ole.Grubstake posted his findings.

But whatever Ole.Grubstake has something there to look at.
 

Emma

Greenie
May 26, 2006
17
5
Paris, France
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
Hi there,

Why would you think Cornelius that the date of the thinking is wrong ?
Duro says January 1808 but it's a mistake, she was lost in December 1806 as stated in all the AGI and AGS Manuscripts.
What Cablava said is right:
November 14 1806 The "Magallanes" arrives back in Manila and is unloaded. "700-800 bales of the most
select cargo" are transferred to the "Esperanza"

December 11, 1806 The "Esperanza" sails for Acapulco, heading south to first make a stop in
Zamboanga city.

December 14, 1806 3am The "Esperanza" strikes the reef at the Panagatan Cays and sinks. From
survivor reports.

EXCEPT that in December 11th she sailed from Manila to HEADING NORTH, and not South. "Esperanza" is lost in the South China Sea, three days after her departure from Manila.
 

maximushisp

Jr. Member
Feb 4, 2005
43
0
Hi all,
At the first time,I read the first post of Cablava in this subject,
later, I read the reply of Emma to Ole,suggesting him to read "Armada española".
I read the "Armada Española" of Fernandez Duro,and the information that Duro tell ,it's totally
diferent that Cablava said first.
At this moment,I thought that Cablava information it's right,and Duro it's wrong.
I thought that Emma suggested us to read Duro,to find a right information or a clue about the lost of La Esperanza.
It's for this reason my mistake,to read Duro, and didn't find the right information.
The right information it's in other place.

Cheers

David
 

Emma

Greenie
May 26, 2006
17
5
Paris, France
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
David,

Duro is wrong but not far from the thruth.
I got the information on a Spanish hydrographic manuscript.

Emma
 

mariner

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2005
877
18
Grubby,

Would it be possible for you to share more information with us about the date ranges on (what may be) the two sets of coins that have been found at your site? That will help to limit the search for the identity of the ship or ships involved. Presumably they are all Spanish coins?

Mariner
 

mariner

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2005
877
18
Grubby,

Thanks for the information about the coins. A fascinating combination. It is clear that you have at least two wrecks there. You are extremely unlikely to find 16th and 18th century Spanish coins on a single ship. As for the coins of other nations, that needs some thought.

Doc,

I am aware of the posting on your site, and saw the earlier posting of a coin on this site (under an earlier topic) but it was Grubby's recent comment about two ranges of dates that prompted my question, and Grubby's interesting response.

Best wishes,

Mariner
 

mariner

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2005
877
18
Grubby,

The 16th century European exploration of the West Coast is my particular area of interest, so your site is of great interest to me. A couple of years ago, I tried to document every ship that went missing in the Pacific in the 16th century, so I will try to find those notes. There is a problem in knowing how long a coin from that period would be in circulation, because the date the coin was minted only sets the earliest possible date for the wreck, not the latest. However, if you have several coins, that helps to determine the date. I assume from your earlier note that the cannons were found at the same point as the 1791 coin, so are probably associated with it. Is that your view?

I would be interested in any information you are willing to share about the earlier coins that you have found. Great project. Any wreck from this early period is of great interest and importance. I hope your son appreciates how lucky he is to have such a great starting point for his diving experience.

Best wishes

Mariner
 

mariner

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2005
877
18
Grubby,

Looks like very high quality glassware. Must give you great satisfaction to create pieces like that.

Best wishes,

Mariner
 

AsgerL

Newbie
Jan 10, 2022
2
0
David,

Duro is wrong but not far from the thruth.
I got the information on a Spanish hydrographic manuscript.

Emma
Dear Emma,

I am very inerested in this. Could you share this hydrographic manuskript with me?

best regards
Asger
 

ivan salis

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Feb 5, 2007
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Detector(s) used
delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
and if in the Philippines did they sign off on unesco if so no for profit salvage possible
 

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