Salvage association

[r49miner]

It seems to me that in Florida any body searching on land or in the sea has a big problem. You started this topic for developing an association. Why not combine forces. Without numbers and a goal your sunk. You have to fight if you want to or not or loose even what you have now. I'm sure there are a few leaders on this forum. Why not gather them and start fixing what you believe to be broke. Fix it. Start a letter campaign, Call people in government, let them know your rights have been violated and taken away.
If enough people can write letters, it will make a difference. The more noise the faster it gets fixed. Once you have a plan, and a written letter you would like people to send in, share it with all the treasure seekers (Miners). We will write also, the more you can get to join your letter writing the better.

Just an Idea and my two cents. If somethings not done soon you could all be facing what Dave Ross is going through.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[wreckdiver1715]

Any association is only as good as it's membership, and leadership. Even IMAC and Shiprex missed the Florida Isolated Finds debacle that was ramrodded down our throats a couple years back. However, had they the foresight to come do some membership recruiting at TreasureNet, instead of relying on the handfull of folks associated with the Fisher organization, well who only knows.
In any case, I think that we should recruit IMAC and ShipRex leadership to join in on this discussion at TreasureNet. We have a large and active membership, and who knows, maby we could all end up winners in the end as they need us and we need them.
Much easier than starting our own grass roots effort.

Tom

 

[Peg Leg]

Wreckdiver1715.
I see you are up early GOOD MORNING.
First I want to disagree with your thoughts about having ONLY Marine Salvos involved with the ASSOCIATION.
I think there are over 13,000 people registered on TN. This means that there are over 13,000 votes out there x 3 = 39,000 potential voters. This is including members of their family as well.
If you were to approach this in a business type manner you could have well over 100,000 registered members and that is a lot of VOTES.
Yes I would concentrate first on the FLORIDA THers. BUT as Florida goes so goes the rest of the Country.
There are people that go to schools for a Show & Tell. This impresses not only the children but their parents as well. The ONLY problem that I can see right now is that there are NOT enough DISPLAYS being shown at Community Centers or at Public Libraries.
I live in Port St. John and have NEVER even heard of a SHOW & TELL ever being held here. There are over 25,000 VOTERS living in Port St. John and 99% have never seen anything that has been recovered from the Ocean.
I feel that Brevard County could be the HOME BASE to start this Association or whatever you want to call it.
I for one will help and do my best to put on a Display of Artifacts from different People and Companies that are REALLY interested in the Betterment of Treasure Salvos or whatever is decided to call yourselves.
In order to do this in a Professional Manner there will have to be displayed some MAJOR ARTIFACTS and not some throwaway items that are just laying around the garage.
I would like to also add that some LARGE photos be added that shows DIVERS in the water. These could be blown up into POSTERS and sold at the Community Center Show & Tell- this will help cover the cost of doing the Show & Tell.
I know that some of you will think this is getting too Commercial but the bottom line is ALWAYS going to cost money.
This cannot be a FREEBEE.
It IS going to cost and I already know that MOST on this forum do not have the funds to see this thing through. What I am saying or trying to say is WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM to do this Project. I do not want to get into Membership Fees because this will not go here.
I ask anyone that reads this posting if they have ANY ARTIFACTS that they will LOAN to JUMP START THIS PROJECT.
I also ask for any photos that they may have that can be blown up to make POSTERS (NO COPYRIGHTER PHOTOS PLEASE)
Well my friends that is my 2 cents worth.
THANKS FOR GIVING IT SOME THOUGHT.
Peg leg

 

[Peg Leg]

Cornelius,
I am in total agreement with you about NOT putting anything on anything that mentions Treasure. The BOTTOM LINE is always going to be $$$$$.
Where is the FUNDING going to come from to print the Membership Cards?
Where is the funding going to come from to Estiblish a NON-profit Corp? or an LLC?
Who is going to take care of the Book work?
And it gets bigger and bigger as each day passes.
There will always be EXPENSES. SO WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM?
Peg Leg

 

[Peg Leg]

My friend,
Where are you going to get a permit to dive on a ship wreck without costing $$$.
It does not matter what the cost is for Membership cards it STILL cost. Where are you going to get someone to visit ALL the Dive Shops in the State of Florida for NOTHING.
How are you going to cover their expenses like food, lodging and GAS.
There is a BOTTOM LINE here $$$$.
Peg Leg

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Pegleg, I never said only professional salvers should be involved with any association. But now that you mention it... LOL
You talk of money, and yes it always comes to that. It takes money to lobby our "Representatives", both at the state legislator, and the ones in Washington. As has been mentioned before, the majority of us who are actively involved in our own salvage (Treasure Hunting), operations are always looking for the elusive dollars to fund our own operations. Unless you are highly trained in the skill of being a lobbyist, have very deep pockets, and don't mind working full time for free, then becoming a member, even an associate member of an organization that is established with prominent and respected folks in the industry seems to be the only way to go.

Tom

 

[ScubaFinder]

Peg, you're missing one keyword, and that is TEAMWORK! When I was helping Seahorse.org get the word out about Chinese traditional medicine destroying the seahorse populations world wide, w had 12 people, and not a dime to our name. Through each member, we got the materials and membership cards printed, one person talked to trade show associates and got us free booths, another offered to set up the non-profit, we elected officers (like any club HAS to do) and together we had displays with live seahorses in aquariums at trade shows all over North America and abroad. We handed out nice color literature, had large color posters and a great looking booth with a powerful message. That was 12 people and only the donations from a forum.

Once we formulate a plan, I bet we can talk our fearless forum leaders into putting up a donation area of the membership page. Look how many of us pay just to make sure we have TNET as a resource...hell I payed just because I KNOW what it takes to keep a good forum going. Members will donate MORE than enough to cover the initial start up, myself included. What we are missing is the teamwork. I am a graphic designer / website designer....when we get together enough to start going, I'll gladly offer to design anything that we need. I could also easily maintain the email list and send out the updates and notices that our members need to be aware of. I would even offer to setup the domain name web hosting account and pay that out of my own pocket until our membership dues can cover it. I did exactly this to start a local aquarium club, I printed nice color flyers and hung them in pet shops...low and behold 2 months later we had 100+ members and a thriving club. It takes more than just a little money, it takes leaders and teamwork...if you have those two things, the money will materialize easily.

Jaosn

 

[Peg Leg]

That is fine.
I never said anything different. I know it takes TEAM WORK to get anything done and done right.
I bet there is more involved in Treasure Hunting and dealing with the State Governments that is envolved with Seahorses. I am not bad mouthing your efforts in anything you are involved in.
I just mentioned the BOTTOM LINE is raising FUNDS. All I did was mention different ways to raise much needed funds and man are you going to need ALL the help you can get NO MATTER WHAT YOU WILL COME UP WITH.

I WILL SAY THIS AGAIN:

THE BOTTOM LINE IS M-O-N-E-Y!
Peg Leg

 

[ScubaFinder]

Raising Discus and Sea Horses is a bit more difficult then TH ting

Amen to that Cornelius! I've PM'd you the seahorse info.

PegLeg, I didn't mean for my post to come off as "against" you, just that we needed to start some ACTION! WreckDiver had a good idea in inviting the members from the other groups to join us here. Maybe we all team up with with another group, or maybe they all join us...who knows. If it will be grass roots, we still need a name. I'm thinking something along the lines of "Amatuer Marine Archeaologist or Historical Assoc." Something that says we are just as interested in the history, and preserving it properly as the treasure.

We could expand on the ideas mentioned in another thread too. Maybe as a group our primary goal would be stated as starting up a non-profit museum and recovering artifacts to display there. The museum could be funded by the sale artifacts that were not historically important...like coins that we have many examples of already. If we could pull that off, it may be that we could all hunt in our own areas under the same corp. as members of the group. Once we are established as a reputable group, the permitting process might come easier for us too. Then when it comes to lobbying and getting info out there, we could have the funds to do it. If everyone donated a small and fair share of their finds back to the museum, the money problem would be solved. I would think the state would be a little more receptive to an idea like this at first, and then if the time comes that we have to play rough, we'd have the means in place to accomplish this. More lofty goals....I know, but but it might be a good starting place. Or even better, maybe it will trigger a better idea from someone else. If we can agree on a name, I'll get us a domain, web server, and web site in short order...THEN we have a start.

Jason

 

[Peg Leg]

I agree with everything being said above.
All I was referring to was a way to raise the money that it will take to run this Association.
The cost to get Incorporated as a Non-Profit Corp is minor.
I do agree that a Museum would be a GREAT idea. Now all it would take is the funds to build such a Museum. Being Non Profit getting Grants would not be a problem-here is where the funding will come from.
Think about that.
Peg Leg

 

[FISHEYE]

rather then starting up a new organization,why not you all jump in and support the ones already in existance like seawrex and the imacdigest.they already have people to do the lobbying with the gov an the gov already knows who they are,im sure they can use your help.and or donations.

http://www.imacdigest.com/

http://www.searex-inc.com/

 

[ScubaFinder]

I think most of us have looked at IMAC as a possibility, and I have no objection to joining their organization. However, like Cornelius said, if they were truly interested in the small, poor, or amatuer treasure hunter they would have been over here already lobbying for our support. I'd gladly support any group that was working towards my goals. Something tells me the old hands that run IMAC might not be all that interested in helping a bunch of new treasure hunters trying to get a foot in the door. I hope I'm wrong, but that is the impression I have been given...if it is correct, then we need to look to ourselves. If not, what the hell are we doing discussing this, let's get on board!

Jason

 

[mad4wrecks]

What makes you think that by supporting these organizations YOU will ever get the right to dive on your own little project ? All you do is support THEM in their quests

I do not think IMAC's goals are project specific and are certainly not geared towards any one salvage company.
It seems like a worthwhile organisation for US salvage companies to support. And it isn't just monetary support they need anyway. Letter writing and public awareness are also appreciated.

Their staff and Board of Directors are certainly impressive and knowledgeable.

 

[Peg Leg]

I just went to the IMAC website and I have to say that I am NOT impressed.
It is a very dull forum. This TH forum has them beat all to hell. I see that there are a select few posting on the IMAC forum. The IMAC may be a LARGE COMPANY but in dollars only. They are not getting anything done either. They even ask the question about the State issuing any New Permits. Now my friends if THEY (IMAC) are not able to get anywhere what chance do we have BUT STOP and think about this, IMAC does not have the numbers that TN has and numbers means VOTES.
I really believe that in time IMAC may want to join us here on TN. If not then that is their lost not ours.
They do have a Museum-several in fact but they do not impress me one little bit. These are designed for making money and that is fine with me-as you all know but this is a different ball game.
By Incorporating as a NON-PROFIT CORP. YOU GET THE BEST OF EVERYTHING FOR LITTLE OR NOT MONEY. Do not forget the GRANTS that will be available along with all the other FREE STUFF . you must also consider a GIFT SHOP (all Meseums have one so don't get bent out of shape Cornelius).
O.K. when do we start.
Peg Leg

 

[ScubaFinder]

If nothing else, we should consider working WITH IMAC instead of running their organization down. They might not be doing anything at this particular moment, but they have done plenty in the past, and I doubt they are sitting around twiddling their thumbs right now. They also have made a name for themselves, and the powers that be already know who they are. There is something to be said for having a solid framework already in place. Working together always accomplishes more than working against, would you rather ride the wind, or tack against it?

Jason

 

[Peg Leg]

I was NOT running IMAC down I was just commenting about what I thought about their website.
It does not matter to me one way or the other who joins what as long as they PRODUCE.
This is 2006 and not the 1960's and things are not the way they used to be which means that the same OLD ways of doing business MUST be UPDATED and as far as I can tell IMAC is depending on OLD THOUGHTS and OLD WAYS of conducting business. They are NOT aggressive enough.
I have been told that they have some good people on their Board of Directors (SO WHAT)but being a Good Person does not mean a damn thing in the business world today if you DO NOT PRODUCE.
I also find it strange that IMAC has not been able to secure a single NEW Permit on ANYTHING since the Federal Appeals Court made its decision that overturned the Law of the State of Va.
I will not get involved with what was said or what happened, we have all been there many times.
But I will say this:
Without forming some type of Association/Group and getting the public involved and informing this Public you ARE just pissing in the wind or Blowing Smoke.
The public has NO idea what is going on and unless they are informed they could care less.
I suggest that EVERY boat owner that has anything to do with Recovering anything from the Seas get together ONE WEEKEND with their BOATS and do a MEDIA EVENT in protest to what the State and the Federal Government is doing to all of us.
But you know what I will bet that you will not have more than maybe 3 boats show up and the reason for this is that THEY WILL BE SCARED TO DEATH that the State of Florida will BLACK LIST them in some way.
I just has a thought:
What if Treasure Hunters were to form a UNION and become part of the AFL/CIO. They have Bus Boys and Maids and what else you can think of including STEVEADORES, DOCKWORKERS, SHIPBUILDERS, TRUCKDRIVERS and the list goes on and on.
Now if you really want to get things moving and SCARE the hell out of the State think about this.
What would happen if YOU had the power to shutdown all shipping in the State.
Radical thinking I know but maybe this will OPEN some eyes with just the thought of GOING UNION.
THINK ABOUT THIS.
Peg leg

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Damn I miss the 60's...

 

[Peg Leg]

So do I my friend SO DO I.
Peg leg

 

[Darren in NC]

Go to http://www.imacdigest.com and click on the forum button. Go to the bottom of the page where it says "salvage permits denied." Read what Pat Clyne (of Mel Fisher fame) says with Pete (Salvor 6) about working together to fight for our rights.

I concur 8)

 

[ScubaFinder]

I tend to agree Darren, looks like they are ready and willing to fight the very problem we are discussing. PegLeg is correct that their forum is not nearly as good as TNET, but what forum is The only problem I have is...where the heck do you sign up?