The San Agustin

[mariner]

Cornelius,

The San Agustin, which wrecked in Drake's Bay, California, in 1595, would be an important wreck for somebody to examine and document. Robert Marx claimed to have found it, but could provide no details as far as I can tell. Subsequent attempts have failed. However, you found what you say is the wreck of the San Agustin many years before Marx. I think it would be impossible for any commercial recovery team to get the necessary permissions to recover the wreck, but it may be possible for some suitable non-profit to do so.

If such an approach was attempted (once again) I wonder if you would be prepared to help by making available your knowledge of the wreck and its location? I wonder what it was that persuaded you that you had found the San Agustin, and not another ship. Were any of the timbers still intact? They were probably made of some hardwood like mahogany or teak, so would have been fairly resilient. Was there a ballast pile, and were there any signs of the remains of the cargo?

It strikes me that if you are going to be in California next summer, and we could have discussions with the appropriate people and bodies, we might be able to organise an examination of the wreck that you found. I know that various bodies have claimed jurisdiction in the past, but I think that if the Kingdom of Spain could be persuaded to give their blessing, it could be a whole new ball-game. It is my opinion that Spain would be deemed by the US Federal Courts to be the rightful owner of this wreck and its cargo, even though much of the cargo would have belonged to private individuals.

What do you think?

Best wishes,

Mariner

 

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[mariner]

Cornelius,

I wish you would change your mind about being willing to disclose the location.

The San Agustin is a very important wreck. It is often referred to as a Manila Galleon, but it was not a typical treasure ship, as such. When Sebastian Cermeno was asked in 1595 to try to locate a suitable harbor on the California coast where the Manila Galleons could put in to rest their crews and take on fresh supplies of wood, water and possibly food, he was given permission to carry some Asian trade goods to offset the cost of the mission. This included a substantial amount of ceramics. Hundreds of ceramic sherds have been found in Indian sites around Drake's Bay, where Drake is claimed by some to have spent some time 16 years before Cermeno. In fact, the main evidence now advanced for Drake's visit relies on separating the ceramic sherds into those supposedly left by Drake from those left by Cermeno when the San Agustin sank there.

The separation depends on the premise that there was such a demand for ceramics that they were shipped immediately after being made. It also depends on the assumption that after a design had been in production for a relatively short time, quality standards declined, and so a poor quality example of a particular design would have been produced later than a good quality example, and the two would not have been carried on the same ship.

I think this is nonsense, and is amply demonstrated by the range of ceramics found on the Dutch Witte Leeuw, which sank in 1613. However, the best way to disprove the theory would be to recover more ceramics from the San Agustin. Your personal observation confirms that this would be possible, if the wreck could be re-located.

If I knew that the location could be confirmed, I would be willing to try to get permission from Spain to examine the wreck and recover the cargo, but in this particular case, I think it is unlikely that permission would be given to anything but a non-profit group. I think that they will take the view that a properly organised search for the wreck would eventually locate it, as the area involved is relatively small.

The dynamics are very different from those associated, for example, with ole.Grubstake's wrecks, where only he knows the general location, never mind the specific location, and this gives him the leverage that might persuade the Spanish government to reach an agreement with him to recover his wrecks and share the benefits.

I hope you will re-consider your position, Cornelius. I would have thought the chances of you or anybody else ever getting permission to recover this particular wreck for profit are pretty remote, not to mention the fact that the cargo is probably not worth the cost of mounting a recovery operation, from a profit standpoint.

Best wishes,

Mariner

 

[mariner]

Don McKay,

I do not know if you have followed this thread. If so, I wonder if you would care to share any info, either publicly or via a PM or e-mail?

Mariner