San Jose

[Peg Leg]

As has been posted here the San Jose was carrying a lot of silver coins.
It blew up (somehere) off the coast of Colombia and now what is left is in 740 feet of water.
Can anyone tell me what caused the explosion because if it were the powder magazine this was in a different part of the ship.
But my question is what were the coins stored in? Wooden boxes or metal chest. I would venture to guess they were in wooden boxes. But regardless I believe that some of the containers just sank to the bottom especially the ones further away for the explosion. So what do we have here is that a number of containers went direct to the bottom. Of course a few broke open when they hit the bottom and are now in piles.
But as far as being scattered I do not think this is the case.
Peg Leg

 

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[Peg Leg]

I suspected as much but had no idea there were Side Scans showing the wreck itself but more important is that it shows the clumps of coins and bars just sitting there waiting for someone to come and get them.
I still say that a Special type clam shell bucket with a underwater camera or a Side Scan Sonar attached to this bucket would be able to recover a good portion of these SILVER CLUMPS in a very very short time. It also appears that the exact location is a KNOWN FACT SO THIS MEANS YOU COULD GO DIRECTLY TO THE SITE and start recovery work-with permission of course and if you only remove the CLUMPS you will not be disturbing any of the HISTORY of this ship.
If there is a manifest I would say that this ship was carrying NOTHING but Silver and Gold and did not have room for anything else. The manifest would show what the ship was carrying.
TR, if possible I would sure like to see the scan you are talking about.
Thanks
Peg Leg

 

[ScubaDude]

Peg Leg, there are many groups with the right equipment (ROV's not clam shell buckets) that would jump all over this if they could get a permit. The wreck and all its treasure is still there, why not focus you energy into how to obtain a legal permit? You get a permit, I'll put the rest of it together. Deal?

 

[jeff k]

The problem here is that both Spain and Colombia have claims.

 

[Peg Leg]

I can not even get a permit from the State of Florida on my Ghost Ship but you know what, this would be a GREAT ADVENTURE if I can pull it off.
Gotta give this some serious thought.
Anyone have a manifest of the cargo. Must start somewhere.
Peg Leg

 

[wreckdiver1715]

That and you still have all those nasty gun boats to deal with! Did I mention that the FARC's favorite weapon for execution is the machete.

 

[Peg Leg]

These people are no different than the RUF that were in Sierra Leone and I would bet there not as many of them as there were Rebels. The RUF,s favorite weapon was also the machete.
I do not know a thing about the FARC BUT I assume that they are a Rebel group as well. As far as Gunboats are concerned BALISTICA MAXIMUS has a few used Missile patrol boats for sale WITH the missiles included. They are EX Russinan PT boats fully armed and ready to be delivered(for a fair price) and for a few dollars more you can get the crew as well.
There is nothing out there that money cannot buy -it all boils down to what you want to do and what you are willing to share and $2 billion is a LOT OF $$$$.
But to be honest I would rather deal with the Governments of Spain and Colombia and have them maintaining security.
WHAT is the FARC anyway.
I would prefer talking about this by PM and not on an open forum.
Thanks
Peg leg

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia

 

[old man]

Peg Leg,

I believe that this forum was started to help each other and exchange information. That said, I don't want to burst your bubble, but I am going to explain a few things to you.
1. It isn't easy to get a permit for salvage in a foreign country. You have to have a great deal of money to just get started and that doesn't include the actual salvage of the wreck.
2. You have to have a Law firm from the host country handle the legal matters with the host government.
3. You have to have the right connections to even get the permit.
4.You have to have certifiable experience in shipwreck salvage to even be considered for a permit in most cases.
5. You have to have a trained archeologist on your staff.
6. You can not just go in with a clam shell bucket and rape the wreck.
7. You have to prove that you have the funds and all equipment to complete the salvage, once a permit is issued.
I hope this answers some of your queestions on this or anyother wreck in a foreign country.
In closing several experienced and famous Treasure hunters already know where this wreck is and they can't even get a permit for this wreck. The Columbian government also has their Navy keep a close watch on this site. It is only a suggestion, but if I were you, I would look for another wreck.

 

[Salvor6]

Hey Old Man,
that was a GREAT POST ON FORIEGN REQUIREMENT. I encountered the same obstacles but there are ways around it.
1. You can open dialog with other governments for free.
2. Yes, I agree. You have to hire an attorney or what's even better is to befriend (pay) a government official!
3. The government official is your direct connection to the government.
4. I agree.
5. You hire one
6. Of course you have to do a responsibe excavation!
7.

 

[Peg Leg]

Here is something that I do not understand.
The ship BLEW UP and is scattered all over the bottom of the ocean so what is an ARCHIE going to do -sift the sand?
BUT I see what side the BREAD is buttered on.
Maybe what is needed is some more BREAD.
Peg leg

 

[old man]

Peg,

Personally, I wouldn't care what an archaeologist wanted to look for on a blown up ship. Although I suspect that there is a great deal of artifacts scattered from the explosion. Just as there are a great deal of artifacts that are scattered on a scatter pattern from a ship striking a reef and scattering everything towards the beach. If a host country in which I want a permit, requires an archaeologist on staff and will give me a permit, who am I to argue? I for one care what antiquities I find on a shipwreck. Shipwrecks aren't just gold and silver Peg Leg. Since you only seem to place a monetary value on everything you find and post on this forum, think of this, bronze cannons,astrolabes , cutlasses, clay pipes and other artifacts aren't money,(but they are worth money) but I sure wouldn't throw any of them away. Peg face it, if you want to play in the big league, you have to play by the rules and if that means a country requires an archaeologist on staff, you have to have one. There are some really good archaeolgist on staff that work with treasure hunters and not against them, Jim Sinclair and Bob that works with SeaHunter are two that come to mind. There are treasure hunters that want to work with Clam Buckets and everything in between, I am not one of them. To each his own, that's what makes the world go round. Happy hunting.

 

[Peg Leg]

Old man,
Yes I am interested in Gold and Silver and anything in between that can be recovered from a wreck site but I am not into collecting broken objects.
When I talk about the San Jose I am talking about the BOTTOM LINE as far as Spain or Columbia is concerned and that is US DOLLARS. These countries want CASH. I also believe from what I have read that there was nothing else on this ship but gold and silver, not clay pipes or china dishes or much of anything else.
If this wreck is in 740 feet of water how do you think these clumps of metal will be recovered?
The clumps will be cemented together except for the gold. It will have to be recovered as clumps and then seperated and treated AFTER it reaches the surface. It certaily cannot be seperated on the bottom of wherever it is right now. I do agree that if there has to be an archaeologist on board then by all means retain the services of a few but they can only inspect what is brought up and placed on deck.
There is enough modern equipment that you can inspect what is on the bottom and then what. How are you going to get it to the surface. I know that I use the word CLAM SHELL BUCKET this is because I have no other word to discribe the equipment that will HAVE to be used to bring this material to the surface. Do anyone?
It has been said several times that in order to reach an agreement one must first PAY or HIRE a Government Official or to retain the Services of a Law firm in Both countries. What is the best way to approch these people-OFFER THEM A SHARE and believe me they are NOT interested in clay pipes or broken china or a bronze cannon. The only thing that will raise eyebrows is the talk of GOLD- PERIOD.
My friend I have delt with many Goverments ONE ON ONE but these were African Governments but people are almost the same all over the world.
We will see what happens.
Thanks
Peg leg

 

[old man]

Peg Leg,
I am not trying to malign you or anyone else on this site. First of all, we all know how third world countries work, that said, there is a US law that basically says that you are not allowed to pay off foreign government officials to get a contract with them.

There are ways around this and if you pm me I will relate them to you. The San Jose carried more then just gold and silver. Every wreck carried essentials to complete their voyage, including navigational instruments and other valuable objects.

I would just like to point out that the Central America, which was salvaged in much deeper water then the San Jose, was salvaged with an ROV.

If you want to try and salvage the San Jose with a Clam Shell Bucket, more power to you and good luck. I am not here to rain on your parade. I am only trying to give you some insight into what you face.

 

[Peg Leg]

These laws cover doing business here in the U.S. IT does not cover doing business between countries outside the U.S.. This is NOT the concern of the U.S. AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT EFFECT OUR NATIONAL SECURITY.
PEGLEG

 

[old man]

Peg Leg,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this US law covers business being done not only here in the US, but also abroad. LOOK IT UP.

 

[Voldbjerg]

We have similar laws in Denmark.

V

 

[Salvor6]

Hey Peg Leg, here is another viewpoint. The reason you can't get a permit to salvage a Spanish wreck in the U.S. is because of the treaty of 1906 between Spain and the U.S. where Spain still claims all their warships lost in U.S. waters. Also, the U.S. forbids any country from excavating any of our warships lost in other countries. This is mainly to protect our WWII warships as grave sites. Well Spain has no such treaty with Columbia. Also, Columbia doesn't have any warship grave sites in other countries so they couldn't care less about Spain's claims. You could get a permit to salvage the San Jose tomorrow if you had enough money to pay off the Columbian officials. They are one of the most corrupt governments in the world. I know one group that worked in the Seranilla Banks (the Pacific Geographic Co. from Long Beach, CA) and their director of operations told me they paid everyone from the President down to get their contract. Look at Equador. There have been Spanish wreck salvage operations in the past and there is one going on right now so if you are interested in salvaging the San Jose, GO FOR IT!

 

[spyguy]

The San Jose (1708) is the stuff dreams are made of! By all accounts it is the richest ship ever to sink in waters anywhere and in any era. It's a shame that it had to wind up off the coast of some completely unstable and dangerous country like Columbia. Many are the times I've read the account in 'The Treasure Diver's Guide' and been fascinated with the possibilities. People keep talking about how difficult it would be because of it's location, depth etc etc which are all good points, but the best and most successful treasure hunters have proven time and again that it's the folks who figure out a way to make the recovery that keep the stuff of dreams alive. My best guess is that the bounty from this ship would make Mel Fisher's finding of the Atocha look like a pittance......
HH
-spyguy

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Anyone have a submarine for lease?