VOC Cannon with 989

[bronzecannons]

Gentlemen,

I recently saw a bronze VOC cannon that has '989' stamped on the breech area. Do you happen to know what these numbers stand for? See attached photos.

The cannon is 49 inches (125 cm) long and has a bore of 2 inches (5 cm).

Other letters on the breech are partly covered with coral but what I can make out is; STEEN 8 BORC?H ? RDT FUDUN.

Thanks for your help and also for viewing.

Sincerely,
Tony Wells

[elle]

Looks close in liking to this English cannon that was found in Indonesia...dates to the early 1700's.

[bronzecannons]

Crab,

No. It doesn't really look like that English cannon. This is a Dutch East India company cannon and the E below the VOC stands for the ENKHUIZEN Chamber in the Netherlands.

Tony

[ScubaDude]

Would the 989 be the cannon's weight as described in this thread:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,27759.0.html

I do not know if the same weight system is applicable to VOC guns though.

[bronzecannons]

Brad,
I don't think so because this cannon weighs at most, approx. 200 to 300 lbs.

Thanks,
Tony

[Smithbrown]

Tony

The numbers are where you would expect a weight to be. I wonder if the wrong weight was put on- Possibly it should be 289 rather than 989? A pretty identical cannon in the Visser collection- same chamber and makers, same length and calibre- has 294 engraved on it.

Smithbrown

[bronzecannons]

Smithbrown,

I seriously doubt they stamped the wrong numbers there. I have seen a few other (not sure of the year) VOC cannons that had numbers stamps on the breech area and this was the maximum distance (in meters) which the cannon ball could reach at an angle of approx. 45 degrees. If this cannon could shoot 989 meters I would think that they would just mark it as 1,000. Could they be so precise to know that it could fire exactly 989 meters? Seems unlikely, doesn't it? That's why these particular numbers are baffelling to me.

Thanks for all your replies.

Tony

[Smithbrown]

Tony

I would not expect of cannon of this date- 1755-1763- to carry any sort of information about distance it shot- I would only expect to find that sort of information in 19th century cannons. What I would expect to find is the weight of the cannon in Dutch pounds- first because of the methods of payment- the VOC would nned to make sure they were not being cheated - and secondly for during its working life. The weight is needed for carriage making and for ship loading. I would be puzzled if there was no weight- hence my suggestion.

Smithbrown

[bronzecannons]

Smithbrown,

Yes, I agree with you that the distance was stamped on the later dated cannons. I also agree that these numbers probably represent the weight of the cannon. I'm just trying to figure out what 989 means. So you think it's 289 dutch pounds?

Tony

[Smithbrown]

If there is no other number that can be interpreted as a weight, then yes, that seems a possible explanation.

I assume it has not been altered at a later period?

Smithbrown

[Smithbrown]

Could it be that the mark is 282 and the bottoms of the 2s are damaged?

Smithbrown

[bronzecannons]

Smithbrown,

Actually, when I blow up the photo to max size the 9's do appear to be 2's so you may very well be correct. That makes it 282. Thanks for your great observations. You're a genius!

Now, next question is; How much is 282 dutch pounds compared to US pounds (or in kilograms)?

Tony

[bronzecannons]

After closer evaluation I'm 100% sure it's 282 stamped on the cannon breech. I just read the following on a web site;

Weights and Measures

Quantity control is essential for trade, and trade was the driving force behind both the discovery and the colonisation of Southern Africa; hence the early establishment of a system of weights and measures at the Cape of Good Hope. In 1681, through the 'Statuten van India', the Dutch authorities prescribed standards of measurement and their application in trade. Instruments had to be assized twice yearly and the most common goods had to be marketed in fixed quantities. Fines were imposed for non-compliance. At the beginning of British rule in 1806 the following standards were in use:
Weight:

16 ounces = 32 lood = 1 Dutch pound
92 Dutch pounds = 100 English pounds
Units of weight: 50 lb to 1 lood

Based on the above : 1 Dutch pound = 1.0869 English pounds. So, if I multiply 282 x 1.0869 = 306.5058 pounds.

Thanks for all your help.
Tony

[Smithbrown]

I have done the same thing myself, misreading a slightly damaged number. Too early on a Sunday morning here to think straight. But glad the mystery is solved to all's satisfaction.

Smithbrown

[bronzecannons]

Smithbrown,

It's not really damaged. I just didn't look closely enough. When I blow up and look at the original photo's really close I can clearely see that it says 282 (not 989). Anyway, once again I thank you for all your assistance. I do appreciate it very much!

Tony

[bronzecannons]

Crab,

The weapon in your photo would be better described as a PEDRERO due to its short stubby shape.

Tony

[Trez]

Looks close in liking to this English cannon that was found in Indonesia...dates to the early 1700's.

Crab,

Here is a good site...
cannons....and good info
just advance pages until to see cannon types....

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online...is3/is3toc.htm

Trez

[elle]

Tony....thanks for the correction. I'm pretty sure you were just inquiring about the numbers.
If, however, you are curious as to the foundry makers'initials and orgin of this piece, I have several references. By accessing the Dutch East India Company(VOC)website...you will find a complete
list of the voc shipwrecks, detailing more than 650 of them.
If this is an important piece of evidence for you, further studies through the voc archives,
which still survive in seven different locations, should reveal some clues.
Since the artifact is from the Enkhuizen chamber, the database in the Dutch National Archives of the
Netherlands (The Hague), is a must. Information is currently being added for each VOC ship
along with detailed facts derived from the "paybooks" for the thousands of seamen who sailed from the Netherlands. The amount of saved archival material for the Dutch exploration is extensive
but also localized through the six chambers. The metal foundries are documented and so are the
ships that carried this large metal, so I hope this gives you a lead...if you need one.
I'd be happy to help in your research if you are pursuing more answers.
http://www.vocshipwrecks.nl/

[bronzecannons]

Crab,

Thanks for that bit of info. That's great and I'll surely try to put it to good use. I will do my best to try and figure out the exact wreck this bronze VOC cannon came from. For any of you who are interested, this cannon was found somewhere around Bintan Island (Indonesia) so I'm all ears if you have any ideas. Perhaps it's even already listed in my own book but since I'm traveling I didn't have a copy with me at this time.

Cheers,
Tony