WORLDS RICHEST WRECK

[Salvor6]

What is the worlds richest shipwreck? Not the San Jose. Not the Flor de la Mar. There is one that stands far above these treasure wrecks. In 1604 the fleet of Luis de Cordova lost the four biggest galleons somewhere in the Caribbean. For many years the fleet was believed to have wrecked in the Seranilla Banks. The capitana of the fleet, the San Roque had listed on the manifest 2,000 pounds of emeralds as property of King Philip III. The archaeologist Eric White calculated that 2000 lb. of emeralds, not counting the historic factor, would be worth $300 billion today. (yes, billion) Where is it? In 1995 the Pacific Geographic Company of Long Beach, CA got a permit from the Colombian govt. to search the Seranilla Banks. The four ballast piles that Bob Marx reported seeing off Beacon Cay are really natural coral formations. PG Co. didn't find any of the wrecks but there are records that a "spar" identified as from the San Roque was found on a small island off the E. coast of Nicaragua. The researcher Roger Dooley also calculated the currents and winds and figures it would be found somewhere near the Half Moon Reefs area. I have a chart of that area and there are HUNDREDS of small islands around there. The San Roque will probably never be found.

 

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[old man]

Salvor 6,
New update for you. One of the wrecks is believed to have been found and the permit process is motion. When this famous treasure hunter makes an announcement, you will see that 4 bronze cannons have already been located at this site.

I'm in the caribbean now and may not get to a computer, until I get back to Key West the middle of the week. So if anyone replies to this, I won't be able to answer for a few days.

 

[SaltyCracker]

im anxious soldier - lets see or hear more, exciting what size guns? SaltyC

 

[old man]

Saltycracker,

The famous Treasure hunter in question is still in the Dominican Republic. As soon as the permits are in place, I am sure that he is going to make an announcement. Since a new public company is involved, it might be forward looking to the SEC, if I mention the company, but I don't think it would hurt to mention that Burt Webber is the treasure hunter and that Black Jack Haskins is the reseacher. Enough said for now.

 

[mad4wrecks]

Nice to see they are still in the game. Could this be their swan song?

 

[old man]

I sure hope so, it would be nice to see these two find one of the riches wrecks in history.
Personally, I'd like to see someone find a virgin wreck rich in history, (as well as treasure) it would give the rest of us hope that we might be the next lucky salvor.

 

[Salvor6]

Hey old man, do they claim to have found one of the 1604 fleet wrecks? That would be an almost impossible task. I would be very interested to know what general area the cannons were found. Here is why. I heard: A friend of mine claims to have found the Santo Domingo from the same fleet. He salvaged it for 4 years before the moratorium and found artifacts that match the Santo Domingo. It is located N. of Memory Rock in the Bahamas. He said the Spanish lied about the location of the wrecked fleet to keep pirates from easy pickins in the shallow waters of the Bahamas.

 

[old man]

Salvor 6, until the permit is approved, I can't be more specific. I'm sure you can understand why. I will tell you that it is located around the serranilla banks. Between Jamaica and Columbia.

 

[Salvor6]

Thats close enough old man. I think Burt and Jack have a real winner on their hands!

 

[Panfilo]

Just a few clarifications regarding the Serranilla wrecks: first off they (LFC) sank on the year 1605 not 1604 after leaving Cartagena on Nov 1, All Saints Day en route to Habana. Pacific Geographic Society (PGS) DID find one of the wrecks and they later had their permits cancelled (long story!). They later were charged in Colombia for attempted murder, for leaving a Colombian Navy diver stranded off Middle Key, according to local news reports. The diver eventually managed to swim 5 or 6 miles against the prevailing current and reached Beacon Key. Much to the dismay of some local Admiralty lawyers in Colombia, PGS has managed to have their claim reinstated but their arrest warrant is as far as is known still active. It has been stated that they did sell some items found in Serranilla on the Internet but I don't know. The archaeologist who was in the project has confirmed that one of the Luis Fernandez de Cordoba wrecks was found by PGS and that looting has taken place in the area. There are no permits being granted in Colombia at this time primarily because of the UNESCO decision to be made by the local Govmt. and there is no legislation on the subject as the Supreme Court (Corte Constitucional) has deamed most relevant legislation as unconstitutional. There is no formula for how to split the recovered items and most gov. officials believe that ALL should be declared "patrimony" and not be commercialized. There is a great debate regarding this issue in Colombia and before any permit is issued new legislation has to be enacted. If anybody tells you they have a permit for exploration or diveing for wrecks in Colombia rest assured its all in the imagination.

 

[old man]

Panfilo,
Sounds like you know an awful lot about the company that was stealing artifacts. I don't know if you are part of this company or not, but I wouldn't count the other group out until the fat lady sings and she hasn't sung yet.

 

[Panfilo]

No relation with PGS, fortunately for me, but I do some research and do read the press here in Colombia. I will tell you one thing though that there is no shipwreck in the world (or ocean) that has 300 billion worth of emeralds. Last year Colombia exported just under 100 million dollars of emeralds (Colombia is the worlds greatest producer of emeralds accounting for 63% of these high grade gems in thr world) , so to think that in 1604 and 1605 the spaniards produced 2000 lbs of high quality emeralds is ridiculous. Regarding the opera, I have the highest respect both for Mr. Haskins and Mr Webber, a formidable team of experts on the subject of spanish shipwrecks whose reputation has reached even these distant parts of the world. If anybody can find the missing galleon in Serranilla I think it would be them. My comments are intended only to clarify two things: a historical innacuracy regarding the year of these shipwrecks and the "value" of the cargo (not counting what will happen if the UNESCO fanatics win the battle here!!!) and the undisputable fact that Colombia is not granting permits for shipwreck exploration until new legislation is enacted, a lengthy process that requires the "new law" to be approved both in the Senate and the House and later approved by the President. There is a draft that is being worked on but no telling what the pro-UNESCO will do to it. Two years ago a fairly good draft got shot down after the senate approved it. Once the new law is in place I think Mr. Webber and Mr. Haskins will have a field day here as there is much to do here by experts like them.

 

[old man]

Ole Grubstake,
There are a great many here who have been on alot of old spanish wrecks. I'm not here to upset anyone. Have you ever spent years researching a wreck and found 80lb bars of silver? Some of us have, so if you don't know us, don't jump to conclusions about all of us.

 

[rgecy]

Grubstake,

I will have to jump in as well and say that the info provided by old man is accurate. As for value of the emeralds as mentioned by salvor6, that is what the market will bear. And those are prices that reflect the historic value not the retail market value of standard emeralds.

If you want to know more, maybe you should PM old man and maybe he'll share his knowledge of these projects. You may be surprised! There are alot of pros who are here on almost a daily or at least weekly basis.

Panfilo, being new to the forum it would be nice to hear more on your background. You seem to have some first hand knowledge and we all certainly could benefit from your experiences.

Robert in SC

 

[coin_diver]

Well said RG, I must say that while I'm fairly new here I am impressed by the overall high standard of those in these forums. This is a great resource of talent and skills. Let's keep it that way!

 

[Darren in NC]

Grubby, I agree with Robert. Just because old man doesn't have a picture of himself standing next to scuba tanks, don't assume he is a blowhard. I have personally spent time with him...on the ocean, not in a coffee shop...and can vouch that he's the real deal. Ask him some productive questions and you'll get a respectful and helpful response.

 

[Darren in NC]

Tobad that this thread seems to have been taken over by a few people who really just dream and do not do.

No need to defend yourself, Grubby. I don't doubt your credentials for one minute and I would bet that few would. I have always enjoyed your contributions to this forum. Keep them coming, please.

The above quote is what prompted my response. You said "this thread," not "the treasurenet forum," so I assumed wrongly you meant this very thread and since old man was the main contributor...well you get the idea. In the case that you meant this whole forum, I would agree that there are several blowhards and armchair treasure hunters. I'll be the first to admit I've been there. I'm working on that Of course, there are many who are retired and not physically able to get out as they used to. They still have much to contribute. And I didn't mean to set you off by the scuba tanks comment, but I was simply replying to what I thought was a stab at old man. Sorry for the comment.

Best to you,
Darren

 

[Diver Down]

I have heard the wrecks of the Armada de Mar del Sur "South Seas Armada" had some of the richest of all Spanish treasure ships. Those fleets were typically small, three or four ships and were loaded with treasure. (They did not have to worry about the hurricanes of the Atlantic and pirates of the Caribbean,) These ships traveled up the coast of Peru and Ecuador unloaded at Panama, the treasure went overland and eventually to Havana, where the same treasure would be dispersed among ten, twenty or more ships. With more danger involved, the Spaniards tried to spread the treasure out knowing that if a few ships sank or were captured, the majority would arrive safely in Spain. The ships of the Armada de Mar del Sur carried fantastic treasures and a great many did sink. The Nuestra de los Remedios is one of the big ones still out there.

Bill

 

[Klaus33]

Claudio Bonifacio, in his book "Galleons with treasures", demonstrate irrefutably that the San Roque shipwrecked in Swan island, Honduras.
http://www.arrakis.es/~histres/central.htm

 

[starsplitter]

Klaus:

Does that mean someone salvaged it? Sorry, my Spanish is rusty.

Starsplitter