Cannon Identification

[theGOLD]

Hi guys, its been a looong long time. Anyone have any good online guides on naval guns 1550-1850? Trying to identify some mystery cannon and demicannon laying on the sea floor to get a better idea of the wreck site date. Any help is appreciated.

-GOLD

 

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[old man]

Hi guys, its been a looong long time. Anyone have any good online guides on naval guns 1550-1850? Trying to identify some mystery cannon and demicannon laying on the sea floor to get a better idea of the wreck site date. Any help is appreciated.

-GOLD

Gold, Welcome Back. Post some pictures of your cannons and I have no doubt that someone will be able to help you ID them.

 

[Mackaydon]

Pic of any images, numbers or letters would also help--including measurements or scale.
Can you share the ID of any other artifacts in the area that might assist in the cannons' ID?
Don.....

 

[theGOLD]

Okay I know these pictures basically give us nothing to go on at this point but its the best I can give you for at least a couple weeks until I get back to the site. Take a look though:



Its sort of a bit pre-emptive at this point, but does anyone have any catalog style information possibly available online that shows the characteristics of cannon from different countries/eras? I know cannon identification can be a bit subjective as well.

Thanks all,

-GOLD

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Okay I know these pictures basically give us nothing to go on at this point but its the best I can give you for at least a couple weeks until I get back to the site. Take a look though:

View attachment 853450
View attachment 853449 View attachment 853451 View attachment 853448 View attachment 853452
Its sort of a bit pre-emptive at this point, but does anyone have any catalog style information possibly available online that shows the characteristics of cannon from different countries/eras? I know cannon identification can be a bit subjective as well.

Thanks all,

-GOLD

I have re arranged the pictures to point out that you may have a partial carriage in the first one. They could be French or British military, mid 18th cnetury, or later up to about 1840.

There is a high possibility of them being off a merchant ship, and from a foundry that cranked out a lot of guns for these types of vessels. Could have been a slave brig, or something a little smaller. Just my 5 cents.

The trunnion ends and lenghths are what I am basing my assesment on. Are they iron or bronze? They look iron.

 

[Mackaydon]

Can you narrow the research to a particular country, based on the artifacts found?
Don....

 

[theGOLD]

Thanks guys, I promise I will have more info like measurements and better pictures of things in a couple weeks. I believe they are iron but I will confirm that in a couple weeks. There are quite a lot of them scattered throughout the site. Anyone know of any good posts on tnet or any other resources that discuss things like dating a gun by trunnion position or measurements? I can't tell if anyone has been through the site previously but I'd be surprised if someone has because it is really really in the middle of nowhere and the guns don't seem to be tampered with. If any souls aboard this ship went into the water I would be very surprised if any survived. This is the type of mystery that makes me excited to solve.

-GOLD

 

[theGOLD]

Forgot to mention this, but my first thought was also that they could be French or English. Perhaps Armstrong Pattern. I definitely don't think they are Blomefield because I dont see anything that looked like a loop on the cascabel. Like I say, Im not sure that they are iron but Ill confirm that. In that picture with the two criss crossing each other, it looks as though the trunnions are offset from the centerpoint of the side of the cannon as well. Not definitive, but from what I've read, it could mean that they are 1708-1725 since my understanding is that they starting shifting the trunnions from lower offset to the centerpoint closer to 1725 and later. Any opinions on those ideas?

 

[wvwildman]

nice finds congrats HH

 

[Darren in NC]

Smithbrown will hopefully chime in soon...

 

[Smithbrown]

I am assuming they are iron. I cannot see any bronze pieces, any wrought-iron guns or any breechloaders. That, and the rounded cascable buttons puts us after 1600. No sign, as you say, or gun loops or carronades, so that puts us before 1800. Guns with the trunnions lower, rather than at the medium point, tend to be earlier in this period, more 17th or early 18th century. Hard to tell but the guns seem to be short-ish and medium to small calibre, so more like a substantial armed merchant ship, privateer, slaver, that sort of thing. Can't give a nationality- England and Sweden were flooding the world with cheap cast-iron guns, and they were being used on French, Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese ships as well as their own nation's vessels.
You can't really tell without lifing them and cleaning them and that is an awful lot of money.
Smithbrown

 

[Mackaydon]

The pics look like there is enough showing on the various guns to get basic measurements, decent close up pics and other observations, in situ, to possible ID the guns--without lifting and cleaning. At least I'd try that first.
Don.....

 

[FriscoT06]

I love those pictures. Underwater cannon are my favorite to see. Maybe the most eye-pleasing to me on all of TNET. Congrats! (And for the love of God, please post more pictures one day in the future, it is truly valued.

 

[theGOLD]

I will definitely post more pics when I have them for any interested parties on Tnet. This forum really has a great breadth of knowledge and I could sit on here for hours soaking up information.
I'm planning on taking measurements and seeing what else around the immediate vicinity I can find. I literally just swan through and snapped quick shots last time because we were in a hurry.

Thanks for all the info everyone, if anyone has anymore resources feel free to add them in the mean time! The more info the merrier!

-GOLD

 

[dennco2000]

Very interesting, keep us posted.

 

[huntsman53]

Superb find and congrats! It looks like you have a very significant find with a fairly large variety of valuable cannons, cannon shot and probably many, many more valuable things to be discovered. I know that without something to truly reference for sizes, it appears from the pics that there are quite a few different sized (poundage) cannons including what appears to be a howitzer or mortar sized cannon in the lower right pic of the first set. Also, by zooming in, it appears that there is a large variety of sized cannon shot laying amongst or in close proximity to the cannons as well as a large (probably) cooking cauldron laying beside the cannon in the first (upper left) pic. I think that you are correct in your statement, that it appears that no one has visited or disturbed the site. If anyone had found the site, it is doubtful that they would leave such a find unattended for very long! Good luck on future visits and any recoveries from the site and I look forward to seeing any new pics that you are able to get!

Take care and as always, be safe!


Frank

 

[Old Bookaroo]

theGOLD:

It's not an academic work per se but I think one of the best places to start remains Mauncy's Artillery Through the Ages.

Generally the price is right, as well.
Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Goldiver]

Looks like a carronade in there here is some ID info....

http://www.thenrg.org/resources/articles/The%20carronade.pdf

Steve

 

[Smithbrown]

It is quite hard to interpret underwater photographs of cannons because of the distortions of water and crud. However I don't think there are any carronades- there do appear to be a couple of short guns but I think this is an illusion- one is partly obscured by another gun lying on top and one I think is only half a gun. This is partly from the position of the trunnions and the general proportions. I hope we find out more in time.

Smithbrown

 

[Sommy]

theGold, Any updates on your pictures that had us all salivating?