1715 Tierra Firme patache - La Popa, aka La Holandesa, La Galera, Carmen, Miguel

[grossmusic]

I have very little info on this ship known to most of us as La Popa, though it goes by many aliases.

I would so appreciate your help, especially if you understand Dutch &/or Spanish protocol, to expand my understanding.

The facts as I interpret them:

• "Popa" was the surname of the ship's original Dutch captain (or was it his nickname?)
• the vessel was a small Dutch merchant; possibly a galley (Dutch built?)
• Echeverz captured the ship in 1714 off Punta Bernardo (Cartagena, Colombia?)
• Echeverz had to condemn then buy the ship in Portobelo for 2,000 pesos
• Echeverz immediately renamed the ship Nuestra Señora del Carmen for his patron saint (he named many of his ships Carmen)
• Echeverz used La Popa as a patache with very little (if any) treasure aboard during the voyage from Havana toward Old Spain
• Only a few officers and a crew of 15 men were aboard (no passengers)
• After the wrecks the contemporary salvors renamed it San Miguel Nuestra Señora de la Popa in "honor" of the original captain and referred to it as "La Popa" to avoid confusion since there were other ships named Carmen and San Miguel
• Other nicknames (not clear if by modern salvors or contemporaries) include: La Holandesa (Olandesa), La Galera (galley)

QUESTIONS:

Was "Popa" really the captain's name, or a derogatory nickname (not actual name) applied to the Dutchman & his ship? ("popa" could be a derivative of "poop" or "excrement" in both Dutch & Spanish...right?)

Any clues to the ship's original name that might be documented in the Netherlands?

Any more info about the fate of the Dutch captain? Would Echeverz have arrested, compelled or killed the Dutch captain & his crew?

How small would a ship be to only require 15 crewmen?

Where is Punta Bernardo?

After the wrecks, did the Popa's cabins really wash ashore, or was that a misinterpretation of the reports that seemed to actually be referring to the top deck (superstructure) of Ubilla's capitana (per Mendez as quoted in the Haskins reports)?
i.e., Were there two ships that washed ashore enough to use the cabins for a headquarters? One for Salmon to use (Ubilla's) and one for Echeverz to use (Popa)?

Who called the ship La Holandesa &/or La Galera - 20th-c. treasure hunters or 18th-c. salvors?

 

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[Boatlode]

The Hollandesa's captain was Senor de la Popa.

The ship was originally called the La Galera, but this could refer to the type of ship it was, a galleria.

The Hollandesa was a small ship, only 50 tons
Keel = 51 feet
Beam = 22 feet
Draft = 7 feet
Depth of hold = 6 feet
Rudder length = 13 feet
Two masts
Six cannons.

Punta Bernardo is about 50 miles west of Cartagena.

The top portion of the stern of Hollandesa separated and came ashore. Echeverz used the top decks as his real (salvage camp) until he was rescued a month later. During this time, he wrote several letters "from the real of La Popa".

 

[Au_Dreamers]

The full name of the ship is now Nuestra Senora de la Popa, alias La
Galera with Juan Baptista Zaleme as captain, master and
administrator. The pilot was Mateo Bernardo; Contramaestre,
Pedro Echeguia, plus 15 additional officers and crew.

Santo Domingo 419 - Real of Nuestra Senora de la Popa,
Echeverz to Mirallas, 24 Aug 1715.

Nuestra Senora de la Popa, alias La Galera
according to Nancy, but I don't think that this was an alias as
La Galera means the galley and small frigates were also called
galieys in those days, as they could be both moved by sailor
oars. So where Nancy saw mention of La Galera it wasn't an
alias, but just a classification of the ship.
We know nothing about he~ tonnage or measurements or
number of cannon car~ied, if any. Her Captain was Juan Baptista
Zaleme, the Pilot Mateo Bernardo, and 1st Mate was Pedro
Echequia. She also carried an additional 15 officers and crew.

Declaration of Captain Sebastian Mendez, Piloto Mayor of
Nuestra Senora del Carmen, alias La Holandesa, of Echeverz
Squadron, St Augustine, 7 August 1715.


I believe those are two different ships.

 

[Boatlode]

I believe those are two different ships.

Yes. The N.S. del Carmen is believed to be the "Rio Mar Wreck" off the golf course in Vero Beach. To my knowledge the Hollandesa has not yet been located.

 

[grossmusic]

Thanks all.

The Hollandesa was a small ship, only 50 tons
Keel = 51 feet
Beam = 22 feet
Draft = 7 feet
Depth of hold = 6 feet
Rudder length = 13 feet
Two masts
Six cannons.

Love the details!
BOATLODE: Curious where you found this info (if you know). Everything I've found says there's no knowing the exact size. I take it you've found other documentation?

Sorry I forgot to include the officer info.
I find the name "Pedro Echequia" (aka Echeguia) suspiciously close to "Pedro Echeverz" about whom there is much interesting info that makes me suspicious of a lot of "facts." He didn't die in the wrecks as everyone seems to assume thanks to some questionable notes in margins.

Also - are you saying the Popa decks washed ashore because of knowledge outside of Haskins' notes? Because wherever that is noted, it's also quoted that "the superstructure of Ubilla's capitana came ashore" and only the margin notes by translators seem to say anything about the Popa decks.

Also - some of the assumptions that Echeverz would not visit a small, insignificant ship are faulty. Especially if it turns out one of his sons was on that ship, which is very possible. He lost two sons (Manuel & Miguel), but he also had at least two sons who survived (Fermin & Pedro). A 5th son seems to not show up in paperwork, but that could be because of more misinterpretations since that 5th son shares his name (Antonio). Maybe some things attributed to senior were really junior?

So many ways to interpret things!

 

[grossmusic]

To clarify all my questions...I'm really looking for supporting documentation not found in Haskins' reports.

I've found outside evidence of Pedro's life at least through 1733. (Echeverz's will, documents signed by Pedro, his appointment as "mayor" of El Salvador, etc.)

So, I'm looking for outside source documentation, or perhaps more of the Seville translations not included in the 133-page Haskins report.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

La Holandesa was salvaged by the Spanish maybe it lies off Pepper Park aka The Wedge wreck.

 

[ivan salis]

please understand --dutch are folks from Holland * thus in in Spanish "holandesa" means --Holland or "dutch vessel" in English == La Galeria (the galley in English) is the type or make of vessel -- a small rowable sailing vessel (rowable in case of dead calm or unfavorable winds)--- its very small size allowed for a tiny crew -- most likely in order to get the maximum amount of cargo on it might not have carried "ballast stones" but instead carried cargo (cargo makes money rocks do not) being it was so small==which is why it "ballast pile has not been found --there simply isn't one.-- it was recorded that the upper decks sheered off and slid ashore like a giant surfboard --and that the deck works were used as a shelter during the salvage efforts--being a small ship it most likely hit the bottom close to shore in shallow water sticking fast and causing the upper deck to break away.---senor de la popa ( mr of the pope) is one listing --if it is NS then it would be "our lady of the pope"" --please note that religious names were quite commonly used for vessels and due to patron saints varying from owner to owner that names changed when ownership changed hands.-- often a vessel could have multiple name -- where built or whom taken from (Holandesa / Olandesa ) the type of vessel it was (La Galeria) its "religious name" (our lady of the pope , our lady of carmen) and its "official name as well.