1715 ship san miguel in nassau sound / amelia island area?

[ivan salis]

here are several reasons why I believe the sr san miguel is sunk in the nassau sound area.

(1) a letter dated Oct 24,1715 from governor spotswood to secretary stanhope ---in which he states "the spanish fleet richly laden,consisting of eleven sail are,EXCEPT FOR ONE,likely cast away in the gulf of florida southward of st augustine....(later in the letter)..a concsiderable quanity of plate is likewise cast away about 40 miles to the nortward of st augustine.

(2) in a letter dated Sept 20,1715 Salmon wrote to king phillip of spain "that the two GALLEONS are missing, the SAN MIGUEL and the french prize. there is little doubt that they sank on the high seas, and THIS WAS PROVEN becauce fragments of a ship or ships was found on the *north coast of st augustiine---note read as "coast north of st augustine"

(3) having recieved reports from st augustine (2) a letter was written Oct 19,1715 from Lima to Linares (viceroy of mexico) "but from the report we recieved from st augustine, we learned that fragments of a large ship came ashore 15 leagues (40 miles?) to the leeward (must be north see (2) --of this port (st augustine),and because of the many reefs outside this portion of the coast, we fear there are no survivors...(very important as survivors told were the ships wrecked at aiding in salvage---they had their hands full trying to recover the closer "known" to them wrecked 1715 ships & crews at the time)

along with these fact the following a Nov of 1769 map by Capt willaim fuller of the amelia island nassau sound has a wreck listed on it ---the wreck must be pre Nov 1769--there has been many reports of 1700's era gold and silver coins found in the local area on the beaches in the past.

with these facts in hand I think that the SR SAN MIGUEL is in nassau sound---well what do you thing? I want your input on this one ---Ivan

 

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[FISHEYE]

"along with these fact the following a Nov of 1769 map by Capt willaim fuller of the amelia island nassau sound has a wreck listed on it ---the wreck must be pre Nov 1769--there has been many reports of 1700's era gold and silver coins found in the local area on the beaches in the past."

have you ever seen any of these so called coins that were found on the beaches?if so what were they? dates?i hear all kinds of stories of found treasure on beaches but have yet to see any of it.except what is posted on the net from fellow treasure hunters.until you see coins found on those beaches,just consider it a old wives tale or a rumor.

 

[ivan salis]

seen the map (a french copy from 1778) its in the amelia island museum it also listed online at the university of alabama website--seen some of the spanish coins--found many years ago by my pop (before the area was turned into a aquatic preserve area-where sadly you can't metal detect today) he sold them when times got tough and the family needed the cash- he had 5 head of kids to feed.(pop died not too long ago --told me the exact spot where he found the coins and that information and the map I saw in the museum (with the word "nuafrange" which means "wreck" in french --- being a merchant seaman that has traveled the world for the last 27 years Iunderstood the word and the x mark even a child could understand that) is what got me to searching for the wreck and who the wreck was. Being I was only a child at the time--- I only remember they were 2 gold and five silver coins ---the dates I do not know ---I was only a child then---I was not even remotelythinking it was 1715 wreck at the time of my pops death (had other thinking on my mind) so didn't think to ask pop the dates of the coins he found--- most likely pop would not have known as he was a simple "beach coin and jewelery" metal detector type and not up on rare spanish coins --sadly he most likely sold them for their gold / silver value when he sold them-- if he only knew---Ivan

 

[SEAHUNTER]

Hi Ivan
Sounds like you might be on to something. Interested to see what comes of it.
Scott

 

[ivan salis]

Yep normally would not tell a soul but since the areas a "aquatic preserve" now

I'm going to need pro type help ---to attempt to get to it,because even the local beach area is "off limits" to metal detecting--otherwise I would be down there looking right now instead of typing this----sadly even "eyeballing" is not even legal----you can't even take a piece of driftwood off the beach legally.

Yep, normally the line "loose lips sink ships" applies ---tell a soul and ya tell the world * my pop's motto*---keep your secerts to yourself and if you do something you don't want folks to know about do it alone.

but what can I do? I have reached an impass ---I don't have the gear or funds to support the type of search and recovery that the state of florida requires to harvest the wreck --although I have the "knowledge of the wrecksite and the area were pop found the coins on the beach" ---I can't metal detect on the beach area in hopes of finding coins or have someone dive the wreck to gather items to sell to assist in getting funding for a "serious hunt" without getting arrested-(I myself can not dive ---bad lungs)-- so sadly I am blocked by the goverment's red tape and the lack of personal wealth.

so all I can do is tell my tale and pray that someone else might benefit from my knowledge and be of a kind and just soul and throw me a small bit for my help and information when they hit it big time.

 

[ScubaDude]

The wreck is pretty much in an off limits area, just ask Amelia Research.

 

[ivan salis]

oh fla state said "permits CAN be issued" but that due to the nature of the area

(it being a aquatic preserve and all) for the state of florida to issue the permits (both exploration and recovery) that there will be lots of "extra" condtions that would need to be met---thus making it "a red tape rules nightmare" booby trap not worth the hassle for the "for profit" treasure groups ---who are the only ones who have the proper gear and people to do the job right---the non profits don't have the gear or funding or manpower to tackle a job of this type and size however the state has it tied up in so much red tape that the for profit groups can not do it and turn a decent buck-- so it just sits there slowly getting picked to death a bit by bit over time by nature and looters ---with no one gaining anything but the looters. its sad really sad.

 

[mad4wrecks]

The wreck is pretty much in an off limits area, just ask Amelia Research.

Of course, at this point, we have no wreck. Just a location where someone found some coins on the beach many years ago and archival information about "a considerable quantity of plate is likewise cast away about 40 miles to the nortward of st augustine."

Everything Ivan has posted so far can be found in Weller's books, Shipwrecks on Florida Reefs, and Shipwrecks Near Wabasso Beach. The books also mentions the San Miguel was carrying no treasure, just tobacco. So possibly a different ship alltogether?

Remember too, artifacts from the Atocha were found as early as 1970 when Mel found a single musketball and proclaimed, "we've found the Atocha." The main cultural deposit was not discovered until 1985.

 

[ivan salis]

the ship was listed as loaded with tabacco-note it was refered to as a "galleon"

In one of the reports-- the Sr San Miguel is refered to as "Galleon" which is what treasure ships were often called --cargo only ships were normal called nao if I remember correctly---also many times there were massive amounts of money smuggled on these ships --illegally-it was very common and I'm sure you know that being the old treasure hound that you are, and if not from researching these "old records" of the past then how are we to find these wrecks?

just blindly swimming around looking for stuff ? if treasure is what you seek,you must begin somewhere in your hunt and good records written at the time by people in postions of power that had to answer to the king of spain when he asked "where are my ships and treasure at?" logically seem to be a good place to start in my veiw.

marrying this past information and clues gleaned from it withthe present day local knowledge is in my veiw the best way to find ---and barring too much trouble from the state , recover a wreck site

just my point of veiw ---and yes not much can or will be done in the very near future--- mostly due to its location and state hassles with the area at this time --thats a nut that I must figger out a way to crack and until then its a cross I must bear---once that problem is out of my way I'd rapidly be able to get the wrecksite recovery up and running and start working it properly.

and yes alot of these "facts" are in many famous treasure writers / hunters books - I like the fact that so many experts agree on this spot being a" hot spot"---plus its fairly rare for that many of them to agree on something like this---I freely admit that I'll use any information that I can find and can verify as truthful no matter were it comes from ---these people as a group have found ALOT of treasure over the years and are not BS artist in anyones book , they are the cream of the crop in the bussiness---and after looking at the "facts" I quite simply put--- agree with them totally-----it's a given that in their collective veiw that the SAN MIGUEL is lost in this area---so why not give these facts their due ---if this group of well known and highly respected people with their great record of finding wrecks say's that this is "solid info" why do you doubt it so strongly ?

 

[Priate Booty]

Ivan,

Your the Best... God will reward you. my friend...

 

[seekerGH]

Resurecting a 10 yaer old thraed with a misspelled moneker...

Prcieles!

 

[Salvor6]

And someone else doesn't know how to spell moniker.....
Or priceless!

 

[LM]

Between the historical record and the regular wisps of artifact-smoke that have risen from that area for a long time, I'd say that it's just as certain as Canaveral, as far as there being a 1715 wreck there... with exactly the same regulatory problem for anyone who intends to go find it.

 

[Jolly Mon]

I've thought about your threads a couple of times while passing near your site, Ivan. I'm sure it's no piece of cake in terms of diving conditions, but damn, I think you could be right about a potential 1715 related wreck in Nassau Sound.

 

[seekerGH]

And someone else doesn't know how to spell moniker.....
Or priceless!

Virtually every word in the post was not spelled correctly.

Oh the irony.

(and noted you only found 2)

 

[Salvor6]

Found two more seeker, year spelled "yaer" and thread spelled "thraed." That's 4 out of 10. Not very good compared to Ivan. How ironic! Did you finish high school?

 

[ivan salis]

UPDATE -- the spotswood letter of Oct 24 th 1715 --states that its a "VIP and treasure recovery " barcalonga (type of sailing ship) was sent from Havana Cuba to the 1715 wrecksites to recover vips and treasure ...and that it wrecked about 40 miles northward of St Augustine ...which would place it in Nassau sound ---being it was recovering 1715 treasure from the fleet --its wreckage would of course match up with the 1715 fleet ,,,so it would not be the San Miguel 0f the 1715 fleet -- note that salmon said on his report to the king Spet of 1715 that wreckage of a large vessel or vessels was found on the "north coast" of St Augustine in his letter to the king which could account for the a least 1 of the 2 and maybe even both of the missing main vessels of the 1715 fleet ...namely the El Ciervo (French prize vessel) and or the San Miguel (tobacco hauler -Nao) the 3ed vessel(conception) that broke away from Echevez;s fleet -- is thought to have wrecked near Cape Canaveral because of survivors that were found on the cape that floated on a hatch cover onto the cape area

the term salmon used "galleons" when speaking of the two "missing" vessels was because Echeverz's fleet was called the "galleons de terra firme" fleet --or the south American fleet---so he was basically saying that the two missing vessels were from Echevez's fleet...