Hacks South Sea Waggoner by Basil Ringrose

[old man]

Hack's South Sea Waggoner by Basil Ringrose

Aquanut & Pete,
Do you guys have a copy of Hack's South Sea Waggoner. Listing all those Spanish Shipwrecks? Very interesting research. I forgot that I had a copy stored in the attic and just found it.

 

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[Salvor6]

Ed, I don't have a copy but I read the book at the library. It lists wrecks on the west coast and Mexico. Nothing in Florida.

 

[old man]

Pete, I knew that. I just thought since you guys might be in Central America next year. That you might want the charts on where the Manila Galleons dropped anchor in port or the charts for Panama.

Since Don McKay was looking for wrecks in Ecuador. I also have 2 pieces of information that might tie together for him if he ever goes back. I remember reading somewhere that in the late 1500's a Spanish Treasure ship was lost near Manta. When I was down there a long time ago. I remember a local diver showing me where he recovered pottery from the late 1500's from a shipwreck near the entrance to Manta Bay. He gave me one of the whole pieces. I gave the whole piece of pottery to Kim Fisher. If Don is interested. I can tell him almost exactly where the wreck is. I know the local divers only took the pottery they found and did not salvage the wreck.

 

[Mackaydon]

Good morning, 'old man'; I'm here.
You mentioned Manta. Have you read the book 'Women Can Find Shipwrecks Too" by Margaret L Brandeis
(ISBN 1-893181-28-6). It's an interesting book about Margaret's adventures around Manta seeking galleon treasure.
If you are referring to the Capitana "Santa Maria de los Remedios" lost in 1590, that's an substantial, worthy target. On pages 162 and 163 of Margaret's book she lists the items and quantities in the ship's manifest.

Back in '95, I communicated with Howse and Thrower, the editors of a current version of "A Buccaneer's Atlas" (Basil Ringrose's South Sea Waggoner). At that time I was interested in Drake's Isla de la Plata. You and I also chatted about that island at the time. I had also read the book's entries regarding Manta and and surrounds-but had no plans at that time to 'work' the Manta area; I was more interested in the Capitana (1654) at Chanduy.

BTW, have you heard if anyone within the last five years has gone to Baja Nuevo to search for the '1605"?
All the best,
Don....

 

[old man]

Good morning, 'old man'; I'm here.
You mentioned Manta. Have you read the book 'Women Can Find Shipwrecks Too" by Margaret L Brandeis
(ISBN 1-893181-28-6). It's an interesting book about Margaret's adventures around Manta seeking galleon treasure.
If you are referring to the Capitana "Santa Maria de los Remedios" lost in 1590, that's an substantial, worthy target. On pages 162 and 163 of Margaret's book she lists the items and quantities in the ship's manifest.

Back in '95, I communicated with Howse and Thrower, the editors of a current version of "A Buccaneer's Atlas" (Basil Ringrose's South Sea Waggoner). At that time I was interested in Drake's Isla de la Plata. You and I also chatted about that island at the time. I had also read the book's entries regarding Manta and and surrounds-but had no plans at that time to 'work' the Manta area; I was more interested in the Capitana (1654) at Chanduy.

BTW, have you heard if anyone within the last five years has gone to Baja Nuevo to search for the '1605"?
All the best,
Don....

Don, I did read Margret's Book. That's where I heard about the treasure wreck near Manta. If you are ever interested in taking a look at the 1500's wreck with the pottery? I can put you in touch with the Diver that found the wreck. He now own's a fish factory in Manta and his wife is an American.

I don't think anyone has tried to salvage the wreck at Bajo Nuevo. I did talk to Dan Porter ( who is in Panama salvaging some wrecks. ) He told me about another guy that found the copper ingots there in the last few years. I think that guy might be waiting for Columbia to open up salvage in that Country.
I also heard that Burt Webber and his investor are trying to get a permit to salvage that wreck.

I was asked by someone the other day if I would be interested in taking a film crew to La Plata to film the Drake site. I'm waiting on details. ( It's funny. I just read Hack and one of pages lists La Plata and the book " Buccaneer's of America." written in 1681. Apparently they talk about Drake dumping the silver there and how they recovered some it.

 

[Mackaydon]

old man,
If you go to La Plata, there is only one place of safe anchorage; on the NE side in about 25 fathoms--per the Buc's Atlas.
I just read the Atlas again (admittedly, quickly) and found no reference to any recovery at La Plata as, I have assumed, would have been noted by Howse and Thrower in 1992.
Don.....

 

[Mackaydon]

BTW, you may find this interesting: The Drake Exploration Society - Francis Drake and the Isla de la Plata, Ecuador
Don....

 

[kayakguy]

Has there actually been any independent confirmation on the Drake site. I have read about the discovery but it didn't seem as if they actually found anything.

I am particularly interested as I am Moving to Panama next month...however not near the purported area of the coffin. Up in Bocas del Toro.

 

[Mackaydon]

I believe Isla Plata is now an ecological reserve and getting a salvage permit might be next to impossible. As to independent confirmation, I don't know what that would look like to a discoverer in the late 1680s when Capt. Davis aboard the Bachelor's Delight stated he found some of the goodies from Drake's bounty. You can read about that in Davis's log. More recently, in Verrill's book, They Found Gold (1936) and in Stirling's book, Treasure Under the Sea (1957), you can read accounts of others who have stated or were reported to have found parts of that treasure; in one instance, 18 tons of silver.

If it really exists (since others say there never was a 'dumping') it will take research or just luck to find what might remain.
Don.......

 

[aquanut]

Hey Old Man,
See if Wreckdiver could use your info. He's still in Panama.

 

[old man]

Hey Old Man,
See if Wreckdiver could use your info. He's still in Panama.

John, I don't have his email address. If you have it and he wants it? Send me his address and I will scan the Panama charts and email them to him.

Don M. thanks for posting "in Verrill's book, They Found Gold (1936) and in Stirling's book, Treasure Under the Sea (1957), " . I must have lent both books out and can't find them in my collection. I believe it was in Verrill's book that there is a different report on the steam shovel bucket that was used in the 1930's to recover over 10 tons of silver from La Plata. In one account the steel cable to the bucket was filed and the bucket was not lost. ( Sterling's Book.) In Verrill's book, if I remember correctly. The cable and the bucket were lost. ( Unless there was another book that had that account.)

In any event. When I first dove the site. ( I did not have Verill's Book. ) I did find about 100 feet of steel cable lying across the sand on the bottom. What I couldn't figure out at the time. Was what a one inch steel cable was doing at that location. Because the only boats that I ever saw at La Plata in 1979 were what can be described as long fiber glass canoes with out board motors on them. A few years later. I saw bigger 40 foot boats anchored there to buy fish from the small boats.
After I read Verill's book. I put two and two together and went back to where the cable was and located a Big Non Ferrous area and uncovered one Silver Bar. I reburied the bar in the hope of getting a permit. I have not been back since.

I also think it would be tough to get a permit today to recover any of the silver.

 

[Mackaydon]

Stirling cited Verrill as her source, so I eventually found Verrill's book and read the same account about the equipment failure on board the 1930's salvage vessel. The reason they didn't fix it and continue work was they thought it might appear too suspicious to locally buy the items for repairs. They also reasoned that they had recovered enough so they discretely left the area and enjoyed the spoils upon reaching their home destinations. But try as I did, I could never independently corroborate any of the salvage or find any of the names involved.
Don.....
PS: If I ever get back to that area again...........

 

[old man]

Stirling cited Verrill as her source, so I eventually found Verrill's book and read the same account about the equipment failure on board the 1930's salvage vessel. The reason they didn't fix it and continue work was they thought it might appear too suspicious to locally buy the items for repairs. They also reasoned that they had recovered enough so they discretely left the area and enjoyed the spoils upon reaching their home destinations. But try as I did, I could never independently corroborate any of the salvage or find any of the names involved.
Don.....
PS: If I ever get back to that area again...........

Don, If I agree to this Documentary that was talked about last week. I will have video evidence of where it is for you. The easy part will be showing the Non Ferrous reading on the equipment. The reading will be top side and will be easily video taped. The hard part will be video of another bar. As they are buried under at least 3 feet of sand and muck. Plus, I will take GPS coordinates. The last time I just used easily identified markers from shore and a depth of water that I believe was mentioned in the books.

At this point. I think a permit would be hard to come by. I know if anyone has the contacts to get one. You do. All I want at this point is the Documentary to prove it's there. If I remember correctly there was a Plaque on the beach in from of the Hotel. Basically, it stated that Sir Francis Drake dumped 45 tons of Silver in the water at La Plata Island. I think the Ecuadorian Government erected the Plaque.

 

[Mackaydon]

La Plata is part of the Machalilla NP. I don't know what access your documentary friends have, but you may wish to consider your proposed visit in concert with The Nature Foundation; one of the park's conservation projects. If it were my deal, I'd attempt to create a project in coordination with the Center for Conservation Data, or the Institute for Applied Ecology of the Universidad San Franmcisco de Quito; or the Paque Pacha who have conducted various research projects, particularly concerning marine species and habitats. Then, in your 'spare time', you could do some 'independent scouting' of the surrounding waters--while you observe the sea turtles, humpbacks (in season) albatrosses, frigates,manta rays, and etc.--maybe even locate a strand of unusual cable or another form of anomaly on your detector.
Nuff said,
Don....

 

[Crow]

Hello All

I an not sure Isle La Plata is the money ticket...As in fact over the centuries the name was applied to many islands along the south America and central America coasts.

Here is part of a very rare document from 1581 that tells of drakes successful voyage in brief you might find of interest. Nicholas Breton's Discourse on Drake's "happy adventures," 1581; the only copy known.





Crow

 

[Crow]

This part of another other document may also be of interest. The World Encompassed , 1628






Crow