Aquanut, A possible cabin fever project or Adventure.

[ivan salis]

OLD MAN

OTHER SHIPS OF THE 1641 FLEET WEERE IN BAD SHAPE AND ALSO SANK ON THE "HIGH SEAS" --NOT TOWARDS INSHORE * THESE COULD BE THE OTHER 2 VESSELS YOU SPEAK OF OLD MAN...

ALSO THERE WERE 100 VESSELS IN TOTAL IN THE 1589 FLEET * MANY WERE LOST--- NOT ALL WERE SEEN BEING LOST BY OTHER VESSELS ..SO NO EXACT RECORD OF LOSS WAS LISTED FOR THEM ---JUST MIA ...

IT IS VERY LIKELY THAT THESE SHRIMPER SNAGS ARE "DEEP WATER" TREASURE WRECKS FROM EITHER THE 1589 OR 1641 FLEETS

WHEN SOLID RESEARCH MEETS SHRIMPER SNAG MAPS --GOOD THINGS CAN OCCUR--

I KNOW THE HISTORY AND GENERAL LOCATION -- YOU GOT THE GPS CORDS FOR THE "SNAGS" -- NOW FOR A DIVER WITH THE GEAR AND BALLS TO GET TO IT..(TO PROVE WE FOUND IT) -- THEN THE HASSLE BEGINS --TO GET SALVAGE PERMITS TO GET THE TRESURE OFF IT LEGALLY..

 

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[SADS 669]

Treasure hunting is fun even from an armchair, I am sitting here drinking coffee loving this, thanks guys......

 

[ivan salis]

I JUST WISH THINGS WERE EASIER TO GET THOSE F'N SALVAGE PERMITS ...I GOT LOADS OF INFO -- BUT ITS ALL USELESS WITHOUT PERMITS...(DO NOT WANT TO GO TO PRISON --FOR ILLEGALLY "LOOTING" WRECKS --THE STATE ARCHIES WOULD LOVE TO SEND ME THERE TO SHUT ME UP ABOUT TREASURE WRECK LOCATIONS)--- ala Frank Hudson....

 

[old man]

I JUST WISH THINGS WERE EASIER TO GET THOSE F'N SALVAGE PERMITS ...I GOT LOADS OF INFO -- BUT ITS ALL USELESS WITHOUT PERMITS...(DO NOT WANT TO GO TO PRISON --FOR ILLEGALLY "LOOTING" WRECKS --THE STATE ARCHIES WOULD LOVE TO SEND ME THERE TO SHUT ME UP ABOUT TREASURE WRECK LOCATIONS)--- ala Frank Hudson....

Ivan, 2 things come to move to mind as I sit here in my arm chair.
#1. Contact John, as I hope you be part of this wwith your reseach.

#2. Permit would not be a problem, as no State would have juristiction " if the wrecks are worth going after." They are all in Federal waters. Federal Admiralty Claims are easy to get. ( I know because we got one in Key West a few years ago.) All you need is a piece of the wreck. ie.... wood, coal, spike etc... and enough money to pay a good Admiralty Attorney to file the claim.

Sounds like this may be a good Adventure that would not take a lot of money to verify. We we band together with equipment and man power.
Just like Aquanut envisioned, when he started the first cookout.

 

[ivan salis]

well so long as it outside of the 3 mile state limit ---but the feds basically turned over control of the fed waters out to the 12 mile limit to the states who the waters lie off of didn't they via the 1985 "abandoned shipwreck act" that they cooked up to screw the salvors after mel finally won his court case against fla and the us grubbermint ?

 

[SADS 669]

I would imagine Case law is gonna be the answer here....

 

[old man]

well so long as it outside of the 3 mile state limit ---but the feds basically turned over control of the fed waters out to the 12 mile limit to the states who the waters lie off of didn't they via the 1985 "abandoned shipwreck act" that they cooked up to screw the salvors after mel finally won his court case against fla and the us grubbermint ?

Ivan, I can only tell you what I know from personal experience in Florida.
After Mel`s find and his trouble with Florida State Government. The State has control out to 3 miles. The Florida Keys Marine Sanctuary, then imposed further limits and claimed control out to 300 feet of water. ( I hear they are now trying to up the depth to 400 feet.)
Our Federal Admiralty Claim is outside the 3 mile limit and is over 300 feet. So we do not deal with either the state or the Marine Sanctuary. We deal with the Federal Court and turn all artifacts in to the Federal Marshall`s.

All of the snags on my charts are in Georgia waters, close to the Florida border. I do not know what the Georgia laws are or what they claim. Maybe bikerlawyer or some othet attorney on this board knows. Perhaps we might be able to get bikerlaywer or some othet attorney on this board to join aquanut and the Adventure, " if these snags turn out to be something or then just a pile of timbers."

 

[thetigers2]

You got me very interested also,got time and man power maybe I can be of service when the time comes....exciting........

 

[Darren in NC]

The key to keeping the rights would be to claim it as a pirate ship, and never attach a nationality to it. Until it is proven otherwise, you keep the rights. Spanish coinage was found on all vessels during that era.

 

[Jolly Mon]

The key to keeping the rights would be to claim it as a pirate ship, and never attach a nationality to it. Until it is proven otherwise, you keep the rights. Spanish coinage was found on all vessels during that era.

Right O Darren. Learn from Juno, Galaga and Mercedes...don't repeat the same mistakes Seahunt and Odyssey made !!

Incidentally, here are some of the nearshore AWOIS hits from around Talbot Island north to the Georgia border...you might want to try and match your snag points with the known wrecks and obstructions in the database...
Coast Survey's Wrecks and Obstructions Map Preview

 

[aquanut]

The best info I can find is that Georgia has a 3 mile limit, but don't take that to the bank yet. There is some confusion due to the "Abandon Shipwreck Act of 1987" giving jurisdiction to the States that it may apply out to 12 miles. Anybody out there have any conclusive info?

 

[old man]

Right O Darren. Learn from Juno, Galaga and Mercedes...don't repeat the same mistakes Seahunt and Odyssey made !!

Incidentally, here are some of the nearshore AWOIS hits from around Talbot Island north to the Georgia border...you might want to try and match your snag points with the known wrecks and obstructions in the database...
Coast Survey's Wrecks and Obstructions Map Preview

View attachment 1117881

Thanks for the map. They are not on it.

 

[Darren in NC]

The best info I can find is that Georgia has a 3 mile limit, but don't take that to the bank yet. There is some confusion due to the "Abandon Shipwreck Act of 1987" giving jurisdiction to the States that it may apply out to 12 miles. Anybody out there have any conclusive info?

John, my last check into this was that the states still have the three mile mark. Federal was 12 miles, but Clinton extended the 12 to 24 miles out. I know of no case where this extension has been tested, such as a vessel found between the 12 and 24 mile mark, but I wouldn't put it past any newly found wreck worth contesting.

 

[ivan salis]

my understanding is that via the "1987" abandoned shipwreck act" --cooked up by the feds and the state of florida after mel fisher won his case against the greedy bass tards -- that the feds in effect turned over all the rights to any older type treasure wrecks / abandoned ship wrecks to the state who's waters it lay in (in otherwords out to 12 miles talk to the state) and then tried to extend federal claims from 12 to 24 miles by presidential decree (Clinton) never heard of any contested claims 12 to 24 miles out however. -- I would be quite happy is the state limit is 3 miles *as that would open up a lot of area ...to research

 

[hobbit]

I know I wasn't invited into this discussion, but since it was brought up in the open forum and is an area of special interest to me, I will throw in my probably unwelcome two cents. First off, good luck on what sounds like a fun project. Best wishes and I hope you find a couple of galleons that put Atocha to shame. I will say this though, IMHO it is very unlikely for a 400 year old galleon to present a significant snagging hazard to modern shrimp trawlers + or - 20 miles off the lower Georgia coast. As a matter of fact, if a 400 year old wreck is in that vicinity it might well be invisible even to side scan. That part of the coast is sand city. It is just much more likely for what is obviously a notorious modern snag (according to the insurance mans story) to be one of the many more modern wrecks in the area. It is probably a steel ship of some kind. I am not trying to be a party pooper, but someone said earlier the snags were "likely" to be one of the 1589 or 1641 ships. I think it is extremely unlikely, but not impossible of course. I just can't see the wreck of a 400 year old ship being proud of the bottom and ripping up modern fishing nets---apparently consistently and for many years. The most important thing is to have fun with it though.

 

[Salvor6]

Hobbit every treasure net member is welcome to post on any discussion. Your opinion is highly regarded. I was thinking the same thing myself but you never know.

 

[old man]

Hobbit every treasure net member is welcome to post on any discussion. Your opinion is highly regarded. I was thinking the same thing myself but you never know.

Pete, Like I have said from the beginning. There might only be old timbers down there and nothing of value. I do know that the snag is not steel or metal. That is based on some of the old wood that was brought up in the torn net.

I have also dove on old wooden wrecks that were several hundred years old. I have seen timbers with wooden nails like the one below and have also come across deck planking. I have never come across an old wreck in one piece like in the movies.
If a shrimper is dragging his net across the sand. It could pick up anything. Just like silver bars that we have heard about or other pieces of an old wreck, like the company that found the deep water wreck west of the Marquesa's. This wreck could be nothing. If no one thinks it is worth an Adventure? I can pull it. No problem.

 

[SADS 669]

I'm in if invited........oh and by the way didn't the Atocha bars have fishing hooks and lines on them? Don't forget guys, the treasure is in the search as well as the find......

 

[old man]

I'm in if invited........oh and by the way didn't the Atocha bars have fishing hooks and lines on them? Don't forget guys, the treasure is in the search as well as the find......

Sadds669, I thought I made it clear in my first few posts, that anyone was invited. Aquanut started the cookout to bring everyone to work together. That is why I offered this in the first place and offered it through John and the cookout.
However, if so many people think its a modern wreck and it isn`t worth the trouble? We can forget the whole thing.
I will say this about Federal Admiralty Claims. I checked with attorney David Horan in Key West before we filed our Admiralty Claim.
He stated, " That if the wreck was over 3 miles from shore. The state had no juristiction over the wreck."

We did file on that wreck and it is over 3 miles and less then 8 miles from the state boundary.

 

[SADS 669]

See you at the cookout then ha ha.....