ivan salis
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there are folks who disagree but I think that the documents clearly show where 9 of the 11 Spanish fleet vessel are generally located and provide possible hints as to the possible location of the 2 "missing vessels" of Echeverz's " Galloens de Terra firme" fleet
in the document "ESCRIBANA DE CAMARA 55C" dated Sept 20th of 1715 -- Francisco Salmon's report to the King of Spain ---about the status of the 1715 fleet for which salmon as head of the rescue efforts is accountable to the king , he states that 9 vessels are lost and that 2 of the "galleons" are missing (basically 2 of Echevrz's fleet are unaccounted for) "but thought to be lost at sea because wreckage of a large vessel or vessels was found on the north coast of St Augustine"
now thru study of the Spanish documents , we know that all 5 of Ubilla's vessels plus both of Echeverz's main treasure vessels and the small Dutch prize vessel from Echeverz's fleet -- basically wrecked quite close together (8 vessels in total) plus 1 of Echeverz's vessels the Conception is known to have sank somewhere near the Cape Canaveral area--- because 4 men were found at the cape after floating 2 days on a hatch cover * --this accounts for the 9 known lost vessels that salmon is reporting about --as for the 2 missing vessels of Echevrz's fleet ( the dyewood hauling French prize vessel "El Ciervo" and the Spanish tobacco hauling nao "San Miguel")--salmon thought them lost around the St Augustine area --because wreckage of a large vessel or vessel was found upon the north coast of St Augustine .
thus this should settle several questions like --how many ships in the fleet-- 12 ---- 11 Spanish vessels plus the French vessel griffon and where they sank at ( at least the 8 that sank together more or less)--and since salmon was not held accountable for the griffon (being it was a French vessel ), he did not include it in the report , as he was busy enough coming to terms with the 11 Spanish vessels that he was accountable for . (frankly most likely salmon could have cared less about the griffon at the time )
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it is my point of view that before the storm stuck the fleet that Ubilla as senior commander of the combined fleet ordered Echeverz to join his two major royal treasure vessels from his fleet with Ubilla';s fleet and that Echeverz although not happy about it did so and that Echeverz also brought the dutch prize vessel (holandisa) along with him -- (because during the rescue efforts --Echeverz wrote letters stating that he was writing them from the shelter of the HOLANDISA ) * as a smallish vessel it came close to shore before it stuck bottom , and as it did so , its entire upper deckworks sheared off and slid ashore like a giant surf board ..it is known that the cabin area of it was used as a "shelter" during recovery efforts -- so this accounts for 3 of the six vessels of Echeverz's fleet as well as all 5 vessels of Ubilla's fleet --note the griffon left 2 days before the main storm hit the fleet * -- a day before the main storm hit he fleet the other 3 vessels of Echeverz's fleet were allowed to "break away" from "Ubilla';s fleet" since they officially had no royal treasure upon them (basically they were privately owned ships with no royal cargo upon them) so Echeverz cut them loose to try to survive and get away from the slow moving over loaded treasure vessel "fleet " of 8 vessels -- * the 3 vessels headed northward just like the griffon did -- but it was too late by then they were as they say "a day late" ---- so -unlike the griffon which raced northward then cut eastward avoiding the storm safely and returning to breast ,france as the 1715 fleets sole survivor ---the 3 "break away" vessels of Echeverz's fleet all sank or went missing when the storm caught up with them..
.-- my view point is backed up because records of the fleet pilot's reports to Cuban officials who were looking into the 1715 fleets loss as to the where abouts of the 3 missing vessels *
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thanks Boatlode , thetigers2 , grossmusic & the seeker..
in the document "ESCRIBANA DE CAMARA 55C" dated Sept 20th of 1715 -- Francisco Salmon's report to the King of Spain ---about the status of the 1715 fleet for which salmon as head of the rescue efforts is accountable to the king , he states that 9 vessels are lost and that 2 of the "galleons" are missing (basically 2 of Echevrz's fleet are unaccounted for) "but thought to be lost at sea because wreckage of a large vessel or vessels was found on the north coast of St Augustine"
now thru study of the Spanish documents , we know that all 5 of Ubilla's vessels plus both of Echeverz's main treasure vessels and the small Dutch prize vessel from Echeverz's fleet -- basically wrecked quite close together (8 vessels in total) plus 1 of Echeverz's vessels the Conception is known to have sank somewhere near the Cape Canaveral area--- because 4 men were found at the cape after floating 2 days on a hatch cover * --this accounts for the 9 known lost vessels that salmon is reporting about --as for the 2 missing vessels of Echevrz's fleet ( the dyewood hauling French prize vessel "El Ciervo" and the Spanish tobacco hauling nao "San Miguel")--salmon thought them lost around the St Augustine area --because wreckage of a large vessel or vessel was found upon the north coast of St Augustine .
thus this should settle several questions like --how many ships in the fleet-- 12 ---- 11 Spanish vessels plus the French vessel griffon and where they sank at ( at least the 8 that sank together more or less)--and since salmon was not held accountable for the griffon (being it was a French vessel ), he did not include it in the report , as he was busy enough coming to terms with the 11 Spanish vessels that he was accountable for . (frankly most likely salmon could have cared less about the griffon at the time )
----------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------
it is my point of view that before the storm stuck the fleet that Ubilla as senior commander of the combined fleet ordered Echeverz to join his two major royal treasure vessels from his fleet with Ubilla';s fleet and that Echeverz although not happy about it did so and that Echeverz also brought the dutch prize vessel (holandisa) along with him -- (because during the rescue efforts --Echeverz wrote letters stating that he was writing them from the shelter of the HOLANDISA ) * as a smallish vessel it came close to shore before it stuck bottom , and as it did so , its entire upper deckworks sheared off and slid ashore like a giant surf board ..it is known that the cabin area of it was used as a "shelter" during recovery efforts -- so this accounts for 3 of the six vessels of Echeverz's fleet as well as all 5 vessels of Ubilla's fleet --note the griffon left 2 days before the main storm hit the fleet * -- a day before the main storm hit he fleet the other 3 vessels of Echeverz's fleet were allowed to "break away" from "Ubilla';s fleet" since they officially had no royal treasure upon them (basically they were privately owned ships with no royal cargo upon them) so Echeverz cut them loose to try to survive and get away from the slow moving over loaded treasure vessel "fleet " of 8 vessels -- * the 3 vessels headed northward just like the griffon did -- but it was too late by then they were as they say "a day late" ---- so -unlike the griffon which raced northward then cut eastward avoiding the storm safely and returning to breast ,france as the 1715 fleets sole survivor ---the 3 "break away" vessels of Echeverz's fleet all sank or went missing when the storm caught up with them..
.-- my view point is backed up because records of the fleet pilot's reports to Cuban officials who were looking into the 1715 fleets loss as to the where abouts of the 3 missing vessels *
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thanks Boatlode , thetigers2 , grossmusic & the seeker..
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