Crowdsourcing to uncover the history that lies hidden beneath the waves.

[treasurediver]

Crowdsourcing to uncover the history that lies hidden beneath the waves.


Over the centuries, tens of thousands of shipwrecks happened. Billions upon Billions of valuables sank to the bottom of the oceans. A lot of it is still there, waiting to be recovered.


Each shipwreck has it's own story and each shipwreck is part of History. It takes a lot of work, spread over many disciplines, to uncover each shipwreck story and to bring it to life, so it can be enjoyed by everybody. To bring these priceless treasures back from the deep, in itself is a fantastic journey.


Crowdsourcing means recruiting people from the crowd. To find people who have the skills, the knowledge,the passion, the expertise to accomplish the endeavor.


The team needed to accomplish this task is spread over many disciplines. Here are just a few :


Historian
Writer
Archival researcher
Accountant
Public Relations
Communications
Marketing
Social networks
Entertainment
Publicity
Market researcher
Divers
Remote Sensing Technicians.
Organizers and Managers.
Legal advisers
Financial advisers
And many more.


Of course, the first thing to worry about, is how to compensate all these important members of the team for their valuable contributions.


So here is my question to the crowd :How do we compensate the team members ?
Suggestions ?

 

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[ARC]

Percentages... of NET... even if as low as .05%...
Bonus if amounts exceed agreed upon amount.

A good older read for this is "Tresure The business and technology" ... by Phil Olin.

 

[releventchair]

Part of the list could possibly be developed through internships from colleges by mining the right level of ability,drive and interests..
Fresh means of social networking and updated technology and application more likely to be realized.
Computer "security" is an example.

 

[old man]

Percentages... of NET... even if as low as .05%...
Bonus if amounts exceed agreed upon amount.

A good older read for this is "Tresure The business and technology" ... by Phil Olin.

ARRC, that is the only fair way. Percentages. Unless you have an investor with deep pockets.

 

[Mackaydon]

treasurediver,
Since you have 'divers' on your list, I suggest you add "crew", including the Captain and boat owner (some of whom may also be divers).

PS: You'll also have to consider the current permittee, leaseholder or landowner.
Don....

 

[treasurediver]

Excellent, we got 4 very good answers to add to the pool of knowledge.
I suggest we keep this going and once per week, we add all the pertinent information to the initial text.

Yes, a full crew will have to be part of the team once this enterprise gets out to sea. However, there is a lot to organize before we get to that.
Percentages... of what? Mel Fisher used to say, "a small percentage of something is better than a large percentage on nothing"

So, a percentage of what? treasure? what is treasure? how do you sell treasure? How do you pay taxes on treasure? How do you divide treasure?

About the team: I am retired. I have no intention to get back into treasure hunting. This is just an academic exercise for me. Just for the fun and to find a good home for the shipwrecks that I did not manage to return to or have good research that will just go to waste when I start feeding the lilies from beneath. Just to see if my brain still functions a little or if I am a total Alzheimer write-off.

I suggest we do like the buccaneers. We vote for a leader, a person from among the crowd, to preside the crowdsourcing project.
Once we have our numbers straightened out, we start the CROWDFUNDING project. Google has a lot of information about CROWDSOURCING and CROWDFUDING.

One last idea: We could setup a project cloud, where only team members have password protected access to sensitive information.
It is also a good idea to keep everything together, because here on the forum, the pictures disappear. I have posted lots of pictures over the years and can not find any anymore.

For general discussion this forum is the right place.

 

[GreenHiker]

I would also add an artifact restoration team to properly prepare artifacts for sale or division.


In the few adventures I've been involved with, equipment earned a share too (when we found something) (I.E. - Boat, Mag, UW detectors, etc.)

 

[Mackaydon]

There is an additional group of entities that are required but who are satisfied with less than a piece of the pie. I'm referring to what I call 'facilitators'. For example, try driving you boat through the Panama Canal when you want to. Good luck. You may be stuck 'outside' for over a week without permission to transit unless you have hired a facilitator (agent) to quicken the process. Similarly, you may have good legal counsel on your team, but if you don't also have good legal counsel in the host country, you may be soon find your attempt to search and salvage stonewalled in the absence of that legal facilitator.
Don.....

 

[old man]

Excellent, we got 4 very good answers to add to the pool of knowledge.
I suggest we keep this going and once per week, we add all the pertinent information to the initial text.

Yes, a full crew will have to be part of the team once this enterprise gets out to sea. However, there is a lot to organize before we get to that.
Percentages... of what? Mel Fisher used to say, "a small percentage of something is better than a large percentage on nothing"

So, a percentage of what? treasure? what is treasure? how do you sell treasure? How do you pay taxes on treasure? How do you divide treasure?

About the team: I am retired. I have no intention to get back into treasure hunting. This is just an academic exercise for me. Just for the fun and to find a good home for the shipwrecks that I did not manage to return to or have good research that will just go to waste when I start feeding the lilies from beneath. Just to see if my brain still functions a little or if I am a total Alzheimer write-off.

I suggest we do like the buccaneers. We vote for a leader, a person from among the crowd, to preside the crowdsourcing project.
Once we have our numbers straightened out, we start the CROWDFUNDING project. Google has a lot of information about CROWDSOURCING and CROWDFUDING.

One last idea: We could setup a project cloud, where only team members have password protected access to sensitive information.
It is also a good idea to keep everything together, because here on the forum, the pictures disappear. I have posted lots of pictures over the years and can not find any anymore.

For general discussion this forum is the right place.

Treasurediver, I would recommend either Don Mackay or Aquanut as a leader. Don and John have a lot of experience.
Ivan is a great researcher, sads669 and salvor 6 among many others are great divers. What you propose would make a great academic experience. There is a wealth of knowledge on this board and I don't mean to slight anyone.
I just don't know everyone. On the other hand, Aquanut knows most of the people that attend the cookout. Aquanut also put the cookout together for ALL TREASURE HUNTERS to work together, instead of against each other.
Don knows a lot about salvage. Perhaps two leaders would work better then one.

 

[treasurediver]

Treasurediver, I would recommend either Don Mackay or Aquanut as a leader. Don and John have a lot of experience.
Ivan is a great researcher, sads669 and salvor 6 among many others are great divers. What you propose would make a great academic experience. There is a wealth of knowledge on this board and I don't mean to slight anyone.
I just don't know everyone. On the other hand, Aquanut knows most of the people that attend the cookout. Aquanut also put the cookout together for ALL TREASURE HUNTERS to work together, instead of against each other.
Don knows a lot about salvage. Perhaps two leaders would work better then one.

Thank you old man for the good advice.

I am not going to designate a leader. I am just one of the crowd, ordinary buccaneer so to say. The buccaneers used to elect their leader. Sometimes they also deposed him if they were not satisfied with his performance and he became an ordinary buccaneer again. Sometimes they reelected him again. So they were very democratic, actually extremely advanced for their time, in their organization.

They were also well organized and clever with their way of dividing the loot.

We will need a general leader or manager as well as specialized managers for operations etc. Capable and experienced people for each job. No man alone can have all the knowledge and experience, but every ship needs a captain. Even if there is an admiral on board.

We also need people with expertise in TV and film making.
To recruit all the team members we need to spell out how we are going to compensate them.

We, is everything. We decide. There is no I.

We the crowd.

Are we as capable as the buccaneers? They were capable of joining together a huge crowd of people of all walks of life, many different nations and races, all working together for one goal.

 

[s.c.shooter]

Fascinating subject.

 

[treasurediver]

Follow the money trail

The buccaneers were a rough bunch. But, somehow they had a good nose of where the money was. Of course, in those times the money was gold and silver. They sure knew how to follow the money trail to it's source.

Henry Morgan is known to have been one of their leaders. Below is a picture of the anchorage where his ship the "OXFORD" blew up.

 

[aquanut]

Each specific target will have it's own unique challenges. Selection can be based on location, difficulty and return. I assume you intend to target those shipwrecks with enough treasure aboard to justify the costs involved. Break down your approach into phases of the overall operation so as to outline the effort from start to finish. For example: Phase 1; the plan. Research or specific knowledge leads you to believe you have a target or historical and monetary value within the territorial waters of a particular country. Before going any further, does that country issue salvage rights to foreign or domestic contractors? Time frame and costs begin to play. International water? Who else (ie; Spain) will bring their lawsuits and are you prepared for them? Planning your approach is now on the table. Is it seasonal salvage? The logistics are, by far, the most difficult to plan if the target is in a remote area. It is likely you will now plan the expedition to survey the site. Assets needed but not limited to or all inclusive: Remote sensing; ROV, Mag, sidescan, sub-bottom profiler, sub, well equipped mother ship, divers, crew etc. As you can see, this planning stage will have to adhere to the six "P"s Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. Personnel slots can be planned and then added on a "need" basis as projects proceed. Have at it guys.

 

[old man]

Aquanut, all good points. If this academic exercise is going to proceed. We need a viable target from treasurediver for you to put a plan together.

 

[treasurediver]

Aquanut, all good points. If this academic exercise is going to proceed. We need a viable target from treasurediver for you to put a plan together.

I have mentioned several valuable targets a few days ago. I throw them all into the pot if we can get a proper team to work together.
Now does not seem the best time to give details about the shipwrecks, but I will try to give some vague information to help the train get rolling.

This is a lesser target.
Date: I know the exact date, the information is quite detailed, but for now I have to make it vague, so let's say 18th or 19th century.
The treasure: about 200,000 Pieces of Eight and about 100 lbs of gold coins, property of a private company that is extinct.
The country: One of the rare countries that has a legislation that makes it possible for the salver to have a large percentage of the treasure.
The location: I made 2 unsuccessful expeditions there. The sea is clear and calm for the whole year, but I had no chance of finding the wreck because I was looking in shallow water. Now I have a detailed account of the sinking that gives an accurate location in a depth of about 100 to 500 meters. It is on a sloping terrain.

I spoke with the owner of a ship that has the capability of doing the recovery and he is interested.

So we have a target. Now the ball is in your court.

 

[ARC]

Plenty of em out there...

Finding them is only half the battle though...
To have the "pull" to get the "green light" to dive and legally recover it AND get paid for it... is the other "harder" half.

 

[SADS 669]

Any success I have experienced in my life has been earned in the following way.

1.Sit and think......( already being done)

2.Crawl around the floor a bit ( try out something very small and easy to achieve, ARRC maybe makes a good point above)

3.Stand still ( work out if you can progress to a phase 2, another project and how)

4.Walk around a bit ( try a slightly bigger or further afield project, test the waters with not too much invested, time, or money)

5.Rest a bit ( evaluate how are we doing)

6.Try a little jog ( take on some of the big list of people in the first post, now we have a bunch of experience as a small tight team and hopefully money behind us)

7.Break into a run ( now we're moving)

Take rests to evaluate along the way between sprints ( big sexy projects)

Unless you have a dedicated charismatic leader ( as TD says) like the old and Bold Mel Fisher, Wagner etc this will never work, so choose wisely I would also throw Darren in Trinidad in the mix, I have literally heard hundreds of positive trustworthy comments about him and not 1 negative!! That takes some doing in our " sometimes ego filled world"

The other way to go is have a "butterfly leader" who flys around not physically doing much but ensuring the group leaders are achieving their aims ie his instructions.......

 

[SADS 669]

BVI Hunter is a really well motivated young individual I personally know can be spoken about in the same way as some of the older more experienced trusted by everyone guys and girls.

I think he would make a great group/ project leader, he also has great investment contacts from his time as a building contractor......

Treasure divers idea about a cloud or a password protected site is the best idea on the thread, we could all contribute, get instructions, share info and vote on stuff.

 

[CHUDs]

I would also highly recommend an experienced electrician. By the way, I'm an experienced electrician!

 

[treasurediver]

I would also highly recommend an experienced electrician. By the way, I'm an experienced electrician!

There we have it. A solid job application.

Don't be shy crowd. (hm, what do you call an individual within a crowd?) Jump onto the wagon. CROWDSOURCING is basically building a large team (a crowd) of experts, each one in his own discipline. Take CHUDs for example. An experienced electrician. Everything today is tied together by electricity. On each boat or ship there are various kinds of generators and power supplies. There are pumps, safety and alarm systems and of course innumerable electronics devices that all need to be powered. Who is going to take care of all that? The cook maybe?
We need a large crowd for a large project. Hand in your CV. Become a shareholder. Oops, no I am not trying to raise funds, that would be CROWDFUNDING, slightly different. Just participants in a great enterprise. Of course each person who participates with a share of work should also get a share of the proceeds.