Spain inspected the site seized by Odyssey

[AUVnav]

Odyssey would have had trouble bringing it into the UK RoW with the recovery from Portuguese waters. As noted in the rules, it is illegal to make a recovery in UK waters, and claim it is from elsewhere, so one is certain it works the other way. As noted with the recent jail term for the cannon, yes they are serious, and even Odyssey isn't that dumb.

There are many parameters, in looking at the current mapping by the Spanish, that would easily identify the wreck, the cannon for example. Odyssey recovered 16 tons of silver, but not one single cannon? It was very, very easy for Spain to prove ownership of the recovery, and the location is in Portuguese waters.

The Protection of Military Remains Act 1986

The Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 makes it an offence to interfere without a licence with the wreckage of any crashed, sunken or stranded military aircraft or designated vessel. This is irrespective of loss of life or whether the loss occurred during peacetime or wartime.
You can find wrecks designated as military remains on the Legislation.gov website.
All crashed military aircraft receive automatic protection, but vessels must be individually designated. Wrecked vessels are protected under this Act both in UK waters and abroad.
There are two levels of protection offered by this Act, designation as a protected place or as a controlled site.

Historic wreck material
When material of historical or archaeological importance is reported, the Receiver may seek further advice from experts in a related field. For wreck material that is of historical or archaeological importance, the Receiver of Wreck will try to ensure that it is offered to an appropriate museum. If you find historic wreck material, your views will be taken into consideration when placing the material in a museum and you may still be entitled to a salvage award.

and especially...

Receiver of Wreck - enforcement and penalties
The Receiver of Wreck tries to ensure the fair treatment of both legal salvors and legal owners. They also expect all sea and coast users to abide by the law when recovering wreck.
The Receiver will investigate any report of possible offences regarding the treatment of wreck. If the investigation reveals sufficient evidence, the Receiver may prosecute those suspected of having committed an offence.
The Receiver may share information with other prosecuting authorities, for instance, when offences come to light in relation to the Theft Act 1968 or the Firearms Act 1968.

UK RoW Wreck and Salvage Law


Look at this carefully: If you find historic wreck material, your views will be taken into consideration when placing the material in a museum and you may still be entitled to a salvage award.

There in lies the issue, a shipwreck at the bottom is not in peril, the risk to the salvor is simply monetary, and the skill to recover a vessel laying on the bottom was never the intent of the skills parameter in the Law of Salvage.

It is very clear you must make a very good case to be paid anything. This issue was illustrated by the 'award' Odyssey was given for the 2 cannon they recovered from the Victory and turned over to the RoW, a mere fraction of what they were valued at, and not even close to costs of recovery.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Treasure of Victoria Peak - Grab it through Amazon!

[Darren in NC]

"The Receiver’s remit is set down in the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, Part IX. This covers wreck from UK territorial waters, and wreck brought into the UK from outside UK territorial waters."

"The Receiver aims to give owners the opportunity of having their property returned and to make sure a fair salvage award payment is made where necessary."

Identifying a Spanish merchant vessel wouldn't prove to the RoW that the Spanish gov't owned it outright. We already know the Mercedes was carrying 17% for the crown - the rest was privately owned. Spain would have a hard time proving otherwise. I'm not saying Odyssey would have fared better bringing it into the UK, but they certainly would have had a decent chance, given the UK and Spain's relationship.

 

[AUVnav]

Darren,

The UK RoW handles items of historical value, especially shipwrecks, much differently. Again, If you find historic wreck material, your views will be taken into consideration when placing the material in a museum and you may still be entitled to a salvage award. You may not even get a salvage award, as noted, Odyssey only got $250K for those 2 cannon, and the value far exceeded that.

We all are now very aware of the location of the recovery. Would you think that you could take a recovery from Florida's Coast and submit it to the UK RoW?

You can see that within the rules, there is a heavy emphasis on the involvement of English Heritage with historical items. How well do you think English Heritage and Odyssey Marine get along.

The story of 17% comes from where again? The manifest provided by the Spanish showed a far higher percentage owned by the Crown, and all of the silver specie.

Given the circumstances, Odyssey got away with having the recovery taken away and a $1.2M Contempt of Court. After seeing what they did to that guy for a few cannon, Odyssey would likely been in jail in the UK.

I feel that Odyssey has a much worse reputation in the UK than do the Spanish, especially with English Heritage after the Sussex.

Remember these articles? 250M pirate treasure stolen by Americans

The treasure hunters who recovered gold and silver worth an estimated £250million from a shipwreck off Cornwall spirited their haul to the United States in an apparent attempt to stop Britain staking a claim.
In a highly secretive operation, American firm Odyssey Marine Exploration worked on the wreck of an English ship, believed to be the 17th Century Merchant Royal, less than 40 miles from the British coast.
But Odyssey carefully avoided landing their treasure on UK soil.

 

[old man]

Darren,

The UK RoW handles items of historical value, especially shipwrecks, much differently. Again, If you find historic wreck material, your views will be taken into consideration when placing the material in a museum and you may still be entitled to a salvage award. You may not even get a salvage award, as noted, Odyssey only got $250K for those 2 cannon, and the value far exceeded that.

We all are now very aware of the location of the recovery. Would you think that you could take a recovery from Florida's Coast and submit it to the UK RoW?

You can see that within the rules, there is a heavy emphasis on the involvement of English Heritage with historical items. How well do you think English Heritage and Odyssey Marine get along.

The story of 17% comes from where again? The manifest provided by the Spanish showed a far higher percentage owned by the Crown, and all of the silver specie.

Given the circumstances, Odyssey got away with having the recovery taken away and a $1.2M Contempt of Court. After seeing what they did to that guy for a few cannon, Odyssey would likely been in jail in the UK.

I feel that Odyssey has a much worse reputation in the UK than do the Spanish, especially with English Heritage after the Sussex.

Remember these articles? 250M pirate treasure stolen by Americans

The treasure hunters who recovered gold and silver worth an estimated £250million from a shipwreck off Cornwall spirited their haul to the United States in an apparent attempt to stop Britain staking a claim.
In a highly secretive operation, American firm Odyssey Marine Exploration worked on the wreck of an English ship, believed to be the 17th Century Merchant Royal, less than 40 miles from the British coast.
But Odyssey carefully avoided landing their treasure on UK soil.

AuvNav, I have a hypothetical question for you. If all of these new wrecks in Florida. ( the one's that haven't been found yet.) Are about cultural heritage.
Let's say a new 1715 wreck is found. Let's say in Melbourne. If the company that found it. Recovered everything and then gave the State of Florida their 20%.
Since Spain claims this is all about cultural heritage.
The founding company then took the other 80% of the gold and silver to the Peruvian consultant in Miami.
Because the gold and silver came from what is now Peru. Would Spain try and claim the treasure from Peru?
Just curious.

 

[Darren in NC]

I feel that Odyssey has a much worse reputation in the UK than do the Spanish, especially with English Heritage after the Sussex.

You may feel that way, but the agent for the Ministry for Transport in London told me otherwise when I visited him for a project. He said no company ever paid them fairly as Odyssey did. I am fine with speculating what may have happened back then, but I know we will have to agree to disagree. I respect you have a view that is different from my own. In the end, it doesn't change what happened. Hopefully all salvagers can learn from it and hope for the best.

 

[AUVnav]

I mentioned English Heritage, not DfT...that being said, it will be very interesting to see how the DfT feels now.

Mearns settled out of Court for $25M of the Garisoppa due to the debaucle, and they cancelled the contract with Odyssey.

Currently, there is an investigation regarding the project, and if Odyssey was overpaid by $4.9M.