Spain suing Odyssey...

[GarrettDealer]

I guess maritime salvage laws that effect international waters just don't apply to spain. Apparently as they speak so shall it be. Also it hasn't even been settled that is is even a spanish ship. If spain gets it all or some of it they should send it over during a hurricane on a remote controlled barge and the let it sink. Hey they found it once so can spain.

I really don't like the way spain bullies treasure hunters.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,276596,00.html
MADRID, Spain —

The Spanish government said Thursday it has filed a lawsuit in a U.S. federal court against an American treasure-hunting firm over a shipwreck the company has found laden with a colonial-era treasure.
If the vessel was Spanish or was removed from Spanish waters, any treasure would belong to Spain, Spain says.

"Odyssey Marine Exploration has been requested in a letter to provide information concerning the identity of the ship and the material recovered, and has not responded with the details we were asking for," said Susana Tello, Culture Ministry spokeswoman.

"Spain has decided to go to (the) courts to claim its right in case the discovery is Spanish," she added.

Tello said the lawsuit was filed at the Tampa Courts, in Florida, on May 29.

Odyssey announced two week ago it had discovered a shipwreck it has codenamed "Black Swan" and 500,000 gold and silver coins somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean.

It only described the ship as a 17th-century merchant vessel that sank about 40 miles off the southwestern tip of England. But the Florida-based company would not say exactly where the ship was or name it, citing security concerns, and said the site was outside any country's territorial waters.

Odyssey has said that the ship was not in Spanish territorial waters and was not HMS Sussex, a shipwreck that Odyssey recently got permission from the Spanish government to search for in the Strait of Gibraltar.

But Spain has called the new discovery suspicious and said the booty may have come from a wrecked Spanish galleon.

Tello said the Kingdom of Spain is represented by the U.S law firm Covington & Burling, which have represented Spain over shipwreck cases before, involving the recovery of material from two ships, Juno and La Galga, in a 2000 court case. The Spanish government won the case at that time.

 

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[Jeffro]

Spain Files Claim Over Treasure Ship
By PHIL DAVIS, Associated Press Writer
4 hours ago

TAMPA, Fla. - The Spanish government has filed claims in U.S. federal court over a shipwreck that a Florida firm found laden with colonial-era treasure, an attorney said Thursday.

If the vessel was Spanish or was removed from that country's waters, any treasure would belong to Spain, said James Goold, an attorney representing the government.

"It's a very well established principle under Spanish, U.S. and international law that a government such as the kingdom of Spain has not abandoned its sunken ships or sunken property, and that a company like Odyssey Marine Exploration may not conduct recovery operations without authorization by the government," he said.

"The kingdom of Spain has not authorized any such operations by Odyssey, and by these legal actions it will see the return of any Spanish property Odyssey has recovered," Goold said of the claims filed Wednesday.

Odyssey Marine Exploration Inc. co-founder Greg Stemm said Thursday the company was working on a statement in response to Spain's claims.

He has previously called Spain's legal threats "absurd" and said that Odyssey would notify all claimants once it conclusively determined the ship's identity.

The company announced two weeks ago that it had discovered a shipwreck containing 500,000 gold and silver coins somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean. The Tampa-based company said the site was outside any country's territorial waters but would not give the exact location or name of the ship.

Odyssey has said that the ship was not in Spanish territorial waters and was not the HMS Sussex, a shipwreck that Odyssey recently got permission from the Spanish government to search for in the Strait of Gibraltar.

But Spain has called the new discovery suspicious and said the booty may have come from a wrecked Spanish galleon.

In Britain, the find generated press reports that Odyssey had salvaged the wreck of the long-sought British vessel Merchant Royal, which sank in bad weather off England in 1641. Odyssey has not confirmed or denied these reports.

Spain is using the U.S. law firm Covington & Burling, which has represented Spain over shipwreck cases before, including the recovery of material from two ships, Juno and La Galga, in a 2000 court case. The Spanish government won the case at that time.

___

Associated Press writers Jennifer Kay in Miami and Mar Roman in Madrid, Spain, contributed to this report.

 

[jeff k]

Re: Odyssey PR...

Odyssey Marine Exploration Determines Media Reports Alleging Spanish Shipwreck Lawsuit To Be Incorrect
Thursday May 31, 10:59 am ET


TAMPA, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Odyssey Marine Exploration (AMEX:OMR - News), the world's leader in the field of deep-ocean shipwreck exploration, stated today that it has determined that claims in the press that the Kingdom of Spain has filed a lawsuit against Odyssey were false. Odyssey's counsel spoke to Jim Goold, the lawyer apparently representing Spain, and Goold confirmed in a conversation this morning that Spain has NOT filed a lawsuit against Odyssey, and that any media reports suggesting that a lawsuit was filed are erroneous.

The only document filed is a Verified Claim stating that the Spanish Government does not intend to give up property rights to any Spanish property which might be on sites on which Odyssey filed Admiralty arrests during the past year, including two unidentified colonial sites in the Atlantic Ocean and a 20th century steamship.

"Such a move was anticipated by Odyssey and is considered normal in Admiralty cases," commented John Morris, Odyssey's CEO.

None of the arrested sites have been confirmed as the "Black Swan" and Odyssey has informed the Spanish Government through official diplomatic channels that when - and if - the identity of the "Black Swan" is confirmed, Odyssey will notify any entities that might have an interest - including the Spanish Government - of the specific information about the shipwreck.

In Odyssey's press release of May 21, 2007 the Company anticipated such an action from possible claimants and addressed the issue as follows:

"If we are able to confirm that some other entity has a legitimate legal claim to this shipwreck when - and if - the identity is confirmed, we intend to provide legal notice to any and all potential claimants. Even if another entity is able to prove that it has an ownership interest in the shipwreck and/or cargo and that they had not legally abandoned the shipwreck, Odyssey would apply for a salvage award from the Admiralty Court. In cases such as this, salvors are typically awarded up to 90% of the recovery.

"We do believe that most shipwrecks that we recover, including the `Black Swan', will likely result in claims by other parties. Many will be spurious claims, but we anticipate that there might be some legitimate ones as well. In the case of the `Black Swan', it is the opinion of our legal counsel that even if a claim is deemed to be legitimate by the courts, Odyssey should still receive title to a significant majority of the recovered goods."

Until now, Odyssey has confined all communications to the Spanish government to official channels through the UK and US embassies in Spain in order to ensure that all information relayed is accurate.

Odyssey will continue to communicate through the US and UK embassies to Spain and again confirms that the "Black Swan" shipwreck was not found in Spanish waters or the territorial waters of any sovereign nation. Once the identity of the shipwreck is confirmed, Odyssey will inform all parties that may have an interest.

 

[Demrok]

Someone said it before.. seems like it's never worth anything until somebody uncovers it and brings it to the surface...
then suddenly it's a big deal to them..
why don't they go off and search for this stuff instead of sitting back and waiting like vultures...

 

[mariner]

It is going to be interesting to see if a court allows Spain's argument that its wrecks in International waters have never been abandoned. I think it depends to some extent on whether the ship was a Government War ship, in which case I think the Court would find in Spain's favor and not allow a salvage claim, or just a carrier of treasure, in which case Spain might still be adjudged owner but Odyssey would get a very high share of the cargo.

On the other hand, quite a capricious judgement was made in the case of the Titanic, which also sank in International waters, so it might depend on which side of the bed the judge gets out of that day.

Mariner

 

[mariner]

It might also depend on whether Spain and England (or whoever is involved) were officially at war at the time of the sinking, or when the cargo was captured. Spoils of war belong to the victor in any particular engagemnt, I think.

Mariner

 

[Jeffro]

I know if I ever found anything of value and it was being grabbed at by every greedy hand around, I'd put it back and tell them all to go find it themselves. If things get too hairy, Odessy should consider a nightime dump!

 

[ivan salis]

just lose it again and it the nasty & deepest place possible--- you want want it you get it yourself----Ivan

 

[wreckdiver1715]

It is going to be interesting to see if a court allows Spain's argument that its wrecks in International waters have never been abandoned. I think it depends to some extent on whether the ship was a Government War ship, in which case I think the Court would find in Spain's favor and not allow a salvage claim, or just a carrier of treasure, in which case Spain might still be adjudged owner but Odyssey would get a very high share of the cargo.

On the other hand, quite a capricious judgement was made in the case of the Titanic, which also sank in International waters, so it might depend on which side of the bed the judge gets out of that day.

Mariner

Titanic was a whole different bear, Bob is still steaming over the fact that when he found Titanic he failed to arrest the wreck. LOL Oh well, thats the way the ship sinks.

Tom

 

[pcolaboy]

Yeah nevermind that the Spaniards raped and pilledged the indigenous people to obtain the gold in the first place!

Pcola

 

[Rustys Mate]

I think the courts need to change the abandonment laws. If it has not been bothered with or searched for, for 400 years, it is abandoned. They were not looking for it. They wait until someone else finds it. Let's go back to finders keepers, loosers weepers.

If anyone is entitled to any treasure that Spain claims belongs to them, it should go to South America where Spain stole it from to begin with. I think the poor and starving in third world countries whose ancestors were robbed, raped, and made slaves of by Spain deserve it more than the government of Spain does.
Greedy Bast's.

 

[Amona]

Yeah nevermind that the Spaniards raped and pilledged the indigenous people to obtain the gold in the first place!

Pcola

Hey pensacola-boy, it's not what the Spaniard did in the past, it's what OME did in the present,If you don't like that Mexican and central American 'jump the fence' to look for jobs,then, you don't do it with others.

If it has not been bothered with or searched for, for 400 years, it is abandoned. They were not looking for it. They wait until someone else finds it.

Hey R.Mate!! The Sussex and others wreck sunk in waters, where OME was working, has been claimed by Spanish treasure hunter before OME made some intention to request permission.

Regard
Amona

 

[ScubaFinder]

Amona...you don't have a clue what OMR did in the present. I recall a recent conversation where the marine tracking system said the Odyssey Explorer was in one location, and several people saw it in another. If I had a $500m wreck on my hands, I'd remove my transponder too, if you sit in a location for a few weeks, and then announce you found half a billion dollars, the whole world would know where your wreck was. When all the smoke clears, you'll find that they did NOT recover this from Spanish water, I gaurantee it. You are the ONLY person I've ever heard say that it doesn't matter what the Spaniards did in the past....are you against human rights? You support slavery and killing? Just curious.

If you found a big wreck in PR and salvaged it, and someone came along and tried to take your millions away from you, you would change your opinion in a heart beat. Odyssey has always played by the rules, and you'll see that they did this time too. Spain has always tried to jump everyones claims, and they are this time too. Expecting Odyssey to release all the details while still in a recovery stage is ridiculous, Spain knows this, and uses it to validate words like "suspicious" and the like. I'd bet everything i have on Odyssey ending up with 90% of what they found. Say what you will, but in the end, you'll be saying "Dang, that Jason guy was right on the money".

Jason

 

[jeff k]

Tampa Tribune Article...

Odyssey May Showcase Sunken Treasure In Tampa

By RUSSELL RAY The Tampa Tribune

Published: Jun 1, 2007


TAMPA - Odyssey Marine Exploration, which recently recovered a large sunken treasure in the Atlantic Ocean, says it's considering opening a museum in Tampa to showcase some of those items.

The Tampa-based deep-sea exploration and salvage company said last month it recovered 500,000 gold and silver coins from a shipwreck code-named Black Swan. Odyssey thinks it may be the richest deep-sea find in history and may be worth $500 million.

In addition to trying to develop TV and movie projects, Odyssey is working to launch a museum for its deep-sea finds, perhaps in Tampa, Mark Gordon, Odyssey's executive vice president, told News Channel 8.

"It's quite possible that we'll have a permanent location here," Gordon said. "We're also investigating other markets. Our plan is to open multiple fixed attractions within the next two to three years."

Such an attraction could generate more tourists and their dollars to the Tampa area, said Travis Claytor, spokesman for the Tampa Bay Convention & Visitors Bureau.

"Tampa Bay is synonymous with pirates and ships. Opening up that type of museum would fit visitors' perception of us," Claytor said. "Other museums of that sort have been successful throughout Florida."

The Titanic Museum, a two-story attraction in Branson, Mo., has lured thousands of people, said co-owner Mary Kellogg.

"We've only been open a year, and we've had over 575,000 guests come through," Kellogg said.

The location of any fixed attraction would be based on a number of factors, Odyssey said in a statement. The company said there is a universal fascination with shipwrecks and sunken treasures and the stories behind them.

What's more, some of the Black Swan artifacts could be placed on public display in an exhibit that runs from June 22 to Jan. 31 at Tampa's Museum of Science & Industry, Gordon said. The case for a permanent museum would be helped if the traveling exhibit draws a big crowd, Claytor said.

But before artifacts from Black Swan are displayed publicly, Odyssey may have to clear up some of the legal issues surrounding the treasure's rightful owner.

Odyssey transported the loot to the United States. This week, however, Spain made a claim for the treasure, which may be worth $500 million. If the treasure is from a ship that sank while in the service of Spain, the loot would belong to Spain, according to papers filed in U.S. District Court in Tampa.

News reports from London indicate that British officials think the shipwreck Odyssey discovered is the Merchant Royal, a British cargo ship that sank off Land's End near the English Channel. The vessel was carrying several tons of coins from Spain to Belgium to pay the Spanish army.

Odyssey continues to withhold the location of the shipwreck, which it says bears the characteristics of a specific vessel. Odyssey refuses to disclose the ship's name.

 

[Jeffro]

You are the ONLY person I've ever heard say that it doesn't matter what the Spaniards did in the past....are you against human rights? You support slavery and killing? Just curious.

Jason...you need to bone-up on American history, we've got a few skeletons in our closet as well

Every country does. Difference being America can hold what she has. Spain can't hold what it ain't got. Right or wrong, them's the facts.

 

[FISHEYE]

Note:Transponders can be turned off to not reveal a ships location.

You can equip your boat to receive the same AIS signals that are used to create the ship tracking page on BoatingSF.com. To do so, you generally need two pieces of equipment:

1. An AIS transponder or receiver
2. A display device capable of processing the AIS messages and showing ship positions

AIS Transponders and Receivers

If you want your boat to be visible to others with AIS receivers, you need an AIS transponder. Very few non-commercial boats are equipped with transponders today. Transponders come in two types: Class A, which is required on all commercial ships of more than 300 gross tons and on all passenger vessels, and Class B, which is designed for use on boats that are not required to have AIS and thus can use a slightly less-capable transponder. Manufacturers of Class A units, which cost several thousand dollars, include Simrad, ACR, JCR, McMurdo, and Furuno. SeaLinks is one company making a Class B transponder; pricing is about $1500, but as of this writing it is awaiting FCC approval.

A much less expensive alternative is a receive-only AIS unit. This allows you to view all AIS transmissions, but not to transmit your own position. Our ship tracking display is powered by the SR161 receiver, which is distributed in the U.S. by Milltech Marine and is currently on sale for $189. This low-cost device, manufactured in China by Smart Radio Holdings Ltd., receives on only one channel at a time (there are two channels used for AIS transmissions). It switches automatically from one channel to the other when needed, but this is not quite as robust as a true two-channel unit. The two-channel SR162 may be a better choice if you're using the information for real-time navigation; it sells for $439.

Other receive-only AIS devices include NASA Marine Instruments' AIS Engine, the Easy AIS receiver, and the SafePassage AIS system from SeaCAS.

You'll also need a standard VHF antenna for the AIS receiver. You can't directly share the antenna used by your VHF transceiver because when you transmit it would blow out your AIS receiver. There are automatic antenna switches available, but you're better off just installing a second antenna.
Displaying the AIS Information

AIS receivers provide an RS-232 output, which presents the AIS information using a standard NMEA protocol. Some recent-model chartplotters are able to decode these signals and display the AIS information on the chart, but most existing models are not. If you use a notebook PC on board, there's lots of options to view the AIS information. Here's a few of them:

* The very inexpensive ShipPlotter program not only can display the AIS information from the serial output of one of the receivers listed above, it can even do the decoding of the analog radio signal from a standard VHF receiver (but this requires some modification of the receiver). You can also upload the information you receive to a Web service run by the company, and download the reports from everyone else around the world who is uploading reports.
* SeaClear is a free PC-based navigation program that includes AIS support.
* Commercial navigation software, such as Nobeltec's Visual Navigation Suite and Admiral, Fugawi Marine ENC, Maptech's Chart Navigator Pro, and Rose Point Software's Coastal Explorer include the ability to show AIS information on top of navigational charts.

How AIS Ship Tracking Works
The AIS System

The ship tracks shown on our San Francisco Bay ship tracking page come from a system called AIS (Automatic Identification System). Starting in 2002, all new commercial ships over 300 gross tons, and all new passenger vessels, are required to include AIS transponders. The requirement for existing ships has been gradually phased in.

The AIS system transmits information encoded on two VHF channels, at 161.975 MHz 162.025 MHz. Transmissions use 9600 bit per second GMSK FM modulation and HDLC packet protocols. Each ship transmits during one of 2,250 time slots, so all ships can share the two channels. The two channels provide redundancy and some level of protection from interference. Transmission range is basically line-of-sight, like VHF voice traffic. Typical range is 20 nautical miles.

The AIS transponder receives information from the ship's other navigational instruments. Position, course, and speed over ground information is typically provided by a GPS receiver. Additional information can be provided by other instruments. The ship's officers must enter information such as ship name, ship type, ship dimensions, and estimated time of arrival. This information is not always entered correctly and is sometimes out of date, which accounts for the peculiar information occasionally seen in the ship information panel on our ship tracking page.

Ships that are moored or at anchor are required to transmit their position information at least every 3 minutes. Ships moving at up to 14 kts must transmit their position every seconds; at up to 23 kts, every 6 seconds; and at faster speeds, every 2 seconds. In addition, static information (such as the ship's name, destination, and estimated time of arrival) is transmitted separately every 6 minutes.

 

[EDDE]

Re: Spain suing Odyssey...(or) Gov'ts are Useless

When Spain and England and France and others were hiring 'privateers' to do their dirty work...circa 1700-1880's...somehow the theft and pillage was legitimized.

After a peace treaty..when the privateers went into 'it' for themselves..they were..pirates..the dirt of the earth.

Apparently only 'gov'ts' can legitimize stealing, pillaging, murdering etc.

Now Spain 'the gov't' wants 'its' share of the booty.

I am basically an anarchist...because 'gov't's are actually small groups of the ruling 'elite' who all should be unemployed.

Greed and gov't interference.

Cap Z.

hell yes
now they are pirating the loot

 

[Amona]

are the ONLY person I've ever heard say that it doesn't matter what the Spaniards did in the past....are you against human rights? You support slavery and killing? Just curious.

Jason
Seems to me we're talking about the big issue that OME had created, we're not talking about a subject of 'what' the Spaniard did in the past against others people, because the American people and theirs history hold a dark side inside the American history related with massacre against the human be, against native American, black people and now "breaking family,deporting family's fathers just to be illegal".

I respect you but don't put together treasure hunting business with rape and civil rights violation. Try to keep a good harmony in this forum with respect.

Amona

 

[jeff k]

El Pais Article...

Copy and paste this link into the address bar to see translation.

http://tinyurl.com/yoreo8

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good Mornig Jeff: I am curious, don't the devices have a recording of when they were activated of deactivated? Isn't this recorded in the ships or radio log? If Od had turned their's off, naturally, as the article states they would be guilty of a crime but most of all guilty of a suspicious behavior.

If, shall we say, they are guilty of doing so deliberately, how would this effect any rights they might have under maritime salvage laws?

p.s doesn't satellite continuous coverage of the area tend to verify the actual location of the ship during this period? As I understand the images are made and recorded continuously over the entire world?

Sigh, there is so much that I don't know that it makes me feel a bt foolish

Thanks for the interesting article.


Do Jose de La Mancha