I would guess some people will look at this post thinking ChepO might be some place off the Mexican coast. Wrong I am a CheepO I don't want to spend $65K of my money and another $30K in equipment lost to hunt for something that the government will grab or some ghost story. But if you have a site to research and don't want to play grab ass then email me and we will talk I have a 38 foot sail boat and will be leaving for the Keys and then Miami in about 30-45 days From New Orleans. I contacted one person on the board already but the lead was a dead end since I never got the names of the ships and a date that did not match records. I have done this already its tough hard work and it pays squat but if you hang on longenough it can be a great thing.Please no BS if your not straight up with me forget it you don't have a professional diver on the team krugerrand@peoplepc.com
P.S. I am not a claim jumper we split this deal and nothing else.
CheepO , you sound like a DUTCHMAN FROM bENONI !!!
When you get your boat and **** together and say goodbye to your kruger rands -email me at Vandongel@hotmail.com
Cornelius and other people who have posted. First off Thank You for your input. I am getting old myself and I have been into the salvage business on a couple of other hunts. I have found out what people will do and what they will say they will do. I made it a point to give the figures of $65K and $30k because that is what it cost me the last time and I went home on my gas card with no boat no gear and no treasure. I have stood the test of fire so I will be a little better equipped this time to make a good call on this hunt. Whoever I hook up with will have to have at least a good launch to shuttle back and forth and come up with some equipment. I will have my people on board this time as well. the last time I was a trusting younger me and I left the boat and gear in the hands of partners while I went for equipment. When I returned two days later the boat was sunk and storms had scattered all my gear this was a lesson I wish I could have missed out on.We will sit down and talk this over and have an agreement before we do much past a site survey.Options are good for all. Rather than having lets say a split of just a fictitious figure of 3.5 million or even much smaller I would rather have split a find with several people who were good hard working folks and have made good friends along the way than be a rich man with few friends and many enemy's.
Sounds too good to be true - before I ask around or recommend someone, please give a rough area where you intend operating as I have plans for the DR later this year and all it would entail is you and yourself - if you brought a partner or two it would not be bad. All equipment is paid for and well kept if not new as surface vessel etc, I too have woken up to see all my hard earned pennies floating away. The fact still remains , I am young./
James
If you people are interested, I have an extensive amount of commercial dive gear and an
assortment of electronic search equipment available for any such venture.
I might be interested in assisting you as a partner should a ocean salvage/search become
a reality.
Let me know
Dinkydick
I am a retired commercial diver (over 50 years in the business).
OK people I will be in Miami that will most likely be home port. We live aboard our boat so when I say have a boat it means my home and I would share the galley and head and a bunk to sleep in. Our yacht draws 6'9" of water so we cant get in to some areas but it is good to have a place to duck into and rest and have an evening that you do not have to head to the beach and drag everything out of the water and then start over the next day. I plan to purchase a 20' vessel for doing the work from later on this year after we get relocated to south Florida again. My focus would be in the Keys and the reason for this is the number of wrecks still not located. The cost of operating in the keys is way beyond what most of us can afford but being wise and using the resources of a group it can be a working thing. I am developing leads but nothing is to solid and even if it is a good lead it does not mean we could jump in and dig it out of the mud/coral. So this is just an offer to become involved with others who wish to try this and see if we could come up with a historical wreck and get our 15 minutes of fame. Jim / (Jake)
Ever wonder why there haven't been any recent discoveries in the Keys? Its not that the ships aren't there! The days of Bob Marx, Robert Weller, Steven Singer, and Mel Fisher are over!!! Why? Because ALL of the Florida Keys is a National Marine Sanctuary. You can get a ticket from the marine patrol for having your prop cut up the bottom and disturb the sand and sea grass!!
UNESCO got into the game. Spain has gone before the US supreme Court (a few years back) and declared ALL ships of Spanish registry, sunk in US waters, graveyards and they are not to be disturbed. The US Supreme Court sided with Spain on this issue and that is as they say, the end of that!
So, that leaves the underwater treasure hunter with 2 options. Find it and walk away knowing that you did it or become a thief in the eyes of the law. The choice is yours and yours alone. What would you do if you worked long and hard and finally found it. Knowing that if you went to file a claim on your new found wreck that, after disclosing all info on it that you have including location, it would denied and you would be told that it still belonged to Spain and you could not touch anything on, in, or under it Quite a delima, huh?
Are you so sure you want to do any treasure hunting in the keys? Don't trust what I'm telling you? Check it out for yourself. Make some calls! As far as contacting someone on this board - that was me. Because the info I told you (which is posted elsewhere in its entirety) could not be instantly corraberated and since I don't even know the names of the ships, that means the lead was a dead end? Research is the key! Maybe some of us need to do a little more. I know I am!
At 77 I have not followed recently but 20/30 years ago Spanish Government would negotiate share of around 70% for Armada and other ancient wrecks.
With regard to ownership ALL wrecks are the property still of the original owners who may be a Governments or a private individuals or when claims have been paid the ownership may have transferred to an insurer, the point being that SOMEBODY does own it.
The Deliverance was indeed a French vessel contracted by the Spanish (with Spanish officers on board) to haul treasure back to Spain. Interesting tale!!! Even though the ship is not in state water, it is still inside the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary which makes it federal! They are screwed - the salvage company has already been to court over this one and last I heard were turned down on the basis which was explained before - burial grounds. They are SOL. Its too bad too! It was said that this one would make the Atocha look like a child's piggy bank. Estimates put it at 2-3 BILLION!!!
Not so Grasshopper! It is a National Sanctuary! Atlantic State's boundaries run out to 3 miles. In the Gulf, this is now 9 miles. Federal jurisdiction runs out to about the 12 mile limit. US territorial waters run out to a distance of 200 miles. Outside of that, it is truly International waters. The Territorial water is strictly used to define political boundaries from country to country. The Federal government has no jurisdiction out to say 20 miles, except in the case of a National Park or a Sanctuary of some sort (The Deliverance is indeed outside of Florida State Waters, but still within the Sanctuary). No Parks or sanctuaries go out that far but, the Deliverance salvage company went to court and tried like hell to win over but, the law was firm. The fish saviors said it would destroy the habitat for the creatures and vegetation around the wreck site. There is no vegetation around the site, it is nothing but sand bottom for miles and they proved it with photos. And, if the Exxon Valdez did not kill the fish then their salvage ops wouldn't either. All this was to no avail, last I heard!
I am all for saving the wales and the like but, what about history (Not to mention the GOLD )? When the Salvage Co went to court they had to divulge all types of information including the most closely guarded secret in the industry, the coordinates! Now Spain had the exact location and could conceivably come in any time and get it all herself, after all, it is still her ship!
Not don't that put a bunch in you britches!!! As I said in another post in Shipwrecks, you have two choices, and we are ALL honest men to an extent! I don't believe any of us would risk running out and robbing a bank for say 50K, right? HM, Right? OK! But what would you do if you worked long and hard to locate a shipwreck and you finally did it. The Gold and Silver staring up at you within snorkel reach! Piles and piles of it on the ocean floor at a depth of say 30-40 ft? Would you walk or rather swim away from it knowing that you did what you set out to do? Find It? Or would you fill up a couple of 5 gallon buckets with what you could get your car to haul and be gone forever and take you chances with the law? You don't have to answer that question in this forum! Answer that question in your own mind, because if you said you'd swim away, you're a liar and we all know it!!! The laws today are designed to put underwater treasure hunters out of business any where near state waters or turn them into thieves! Only a very select few have the resources to do it the the deep waters. Why the states don't work with the smaller treasure hunters is beyond my limited comprehension! I would think it would bring in more $$$ for them if they would cooperate and even assist with the smaller treasure hunters then, the states could get theire hands on a lot more income and tourist $$$ from the museums that would be offering of tours and such!
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Re: Diver Salvor CheepO
I think this submarine is what we all need,since we can get the cords of the deliverance,i guess the treasure is up for grabs for whoever gets to it first,we can all chip in on this one,its a great deal,then we can all sing that song:we all live in a pirate submarine,a pirate submarine,or was that yellow submarine,oh well you get the idea.we can even paint it yellow!
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Re: Diver Salvor CheepO
I want something BIG that my friends can enjoy too! im still working on the DPV,also a ROV,an my RV,The Rv is now in my back yard shop,i start today ripping out the insides and the floor an thinking on how i can raise the roof another 1 1/2 foot since right now its only shoulder height,i need head room an more space for ceiling cabinets for all the electronics ill be putting in it.
Millions of dollars of Spanish treasure await those who would dare brave the eye of the hurricane.
You guys are right on about the fact that the wrecks are protected under laws. I lost out on one find when the US Marshals came and said cease and desist or we will take you away. I do have some heavy hitters I could go to but the greed they have far out weighs any thing we could come up with. I just lust for gold and I am not greedy two buckets full would be fine with me. I would never break the law however going by the book is not always the right thing to do.I am quite aware of the Florida marine Patrol and how they will try to site you with a violation for even anchoring in the wrong place. A few years back I was caught in a channel on the Gulf side by Lignamvita Key. It had gotten dark and I just dropped the hook not being able to safely navigate to any other place (no GPS). I woke in the morning to look out at a beautiful channel blue green and deep. I then heard Captain have your crew come on deck. I spun around and the Marine Patrol was sitting ten yards away.So I had my girlfriend come on deck in her jammies all 100 pounds of her while we were boarded by one member of the boat. This guy started to do a search to which I put a stop to by saying get the hell off my boat you do not have my permission. Well this pissed the guy off and he started stating laws to me which I disputed and quoted a few myself. So once it was established that I was not some smuck who had just sailed in and in fact was quoting chapter and page from Federal Maritime Law he kind of backed off. That is not worth much today Florida thinks the Federal Laws don't apply to them. Then I was told I had anchored in the grass which I had not but the tide had switched and I had drug my keel into the edge of the grass.I was told to get my boat out of the grass but I could not run my engine because it would dredge the bottom. I was forced to winch the boat off with the anchor and two hours of muscle.It is hard to believe that they have no concern for the safety of your vessel and that some times minor things happen like that and it is time to just say. Sir try to make sure you are not going to get into the grass and have a safe trip. It was like I had rammed the grass with wreckless intent. I still love the Keys but the place has changed allot in the last twenty years it is almost ruined. I for one will be glad when a cat 5 storm cleanes the place up by removing allot of condo trash.
Cornelius,
Only just read your post (too old to do everything every day) However the ownership of vessel and cargo is almost always separate and indeed whenever I purchased a wreck from Lloyds it was always so stipulated in the contract, often the ship may still be the property of owners since insurers are reluctant to have ownership because of liability for future accidents, ridiculous though that may seem, one ship in 130ft of water was viewed in this way since a bulk carrier route lay within a couple of miles!! said carrier drew about 70ft fully laden!!
In the realities often one would buy an identifiable wreck in an area and then proceed to salvage everything one could find. Not very legal perhaps but the only way if other wrecks could not be named. All of this pertains to our bread and butter steamship wrecks with comparatively low value copper/bronze scrap that we worked.
The Notre Dame de la Deliverance is a good subject and one I have a great interest in.? I have personally seen items that have been recovered from this site and it is for real!? But is it really the Deliverance?? It is probably best stated as unknown right now, but what has been brought up fits the period!? There is definately treasure down there to be salvaged!?
Sub Sea Research has the salvage rights and so far has followed protocal with NOAA and other agencies.? NOAA has given permission to advance to the next stage and even though this wreck lies within the FKNMS, the Admiralty and permits are in place for it to be salvaged.? If everything goes according to plan, from what I understand, divers will be on the wreck by the end of the year! (if not sooner!)
There will never be a true identity to this ship until some evidence is brought forth to state it clearly.? That will most likely only be accomplished by salvage!
I wish SSR the best of luck and maybe I'll see you guys in the keys later this year!
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Quite a delima, huh? 
)? When the Salvage Co went to court they had to divulge all types of information including the most closely guarded secret in the industry, the coordinates! Now Spain had the exact location and could conceivably come in any time and get it all herself, after all, it is still her ship!
