Run-in with the Marine Patrol

[pcolaboy]

A friend of mine and I were going diving for some stone crabs in Pensacola Bay yesterday with his daughter. We had just anchored, hoisted the diver-down flag, and began configuring the Hookah hoses, regulators, etc. when a Marine Patrol boat zoomed up on us.

He immediately and seriously said, "You guys aren't planning on taking any artifacts are you?". I mean really...what were we going to say anyway? The location that we were at is not designated a archaeolgical resource site - of course its probably on the secret list that no one knows about until you get arrested while being on it.

To make a long story short, the Marine Patrol finally left after giving us a good once over and realized that we weren't carying metal detectors, blowers, etc. It really just pisses me off because I know there are certainly thousands of objects (no treasure) at this location but the state has no interest in funding an investigation. Meanwhile, we've had two major hurricanes in the last three years and the site and its contents are in danger of being lost forever. What would you do? I've already donated every significant item I've found in this area over the years to our state funded museum. I'm so sick of the bureaucracy that has created an atmosphere of "we'd rather let it rot than be recovered by an amateur". There needs to be a program where recreational divers can be trained to safely recover objects on the sites that are deemed culturally insignificant, as long as its understood that the items will be placed under the care of a state museum or something along those lines. It's so obvious that the state would rather sanction Spanish Gold recovery on the treasure fleet sites so they get their cut.

Sorry for the rant...I admit I'm veering a bit from reality but I'm damn close.

Thanks for the vent

Pcola

 

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[Salvor6]

Welcome to the PIRATE WORLD!

 

[pcolaboy]

Welcome to the PIRATE WORLD!

It's a damn shame that I would have to break the law to "steal" a historical artifact only to turn around and give it back so it can be saved and preserved for future generations. The whole historical preservation ideaology in the State of Florida is so completely corrupted by institutional radicals and they are doing are essentially allowing these resources to disappear forever - the very thing they fraudulently claim to be protecting. I am so damn worked up right now about this I could absolutely snap.

I better go drink some bourbon and get to bed before someone gets hurt

Pcola

 

[Darren in NC]

It's a damn shame that I would have to break the law to "steal" a historical artifact only to turn around and give it back so it can be saved and preserved for future generations.

Not everyone would agree with this, but you sometimes have to break the law to do the right thing. It would be nice if more states would adopt South Carolina's approach and work with the diver instead of against them...

http://www.cas.sc.edu/sciaa/staff/amerc/sdamp.htm

 

[MichaelB]

Were you right off where the USS Lexington used to stay tied up? My cousin has dove for flounder right there and he said he has seen all kind of stuff laying around. You are correct how does letting it rust or being torn up by storms (news alert, we will have more hurricanes in the next 100 years) save the relics for future generations??

MichaelB

 

[ivan salis]

they the marine patrol --just got trained in "anti looting" ops---and the officer was using his new "training"----its your tax dollars at work--- now they have to use their "training" and the state hopes they catch folks red handed --then the state keeps all the stuff--not just the "finds"--- the state also takes the boat & diving equiptment ---and any other stuff "used" in the "illegal recovery of the items"---like your truck and trailer if they tail you back to them "after" you get said "illegal" item---since you are now using it to "transport" the stolen items--- plus theres the fine money --plus then the feds (IRS) gets in your bussiness ---seeing if you sold any "stuff" in the past and thus made unreported "income" or if you used any of the "ill gotten gains" to buy anything ( did you make a house payment using money from the "illegal stuff" you sold----well kiss the house goodbye if its yours)------oh yeh---you will be paying the state--$$$$--big time if you take stuff and get caught doing it---(I would have to ask him can you show me on my map the "historical protection zone markings" so I'll know where it is for future referance?---very politely of course)---Ivan

 

[FISHEYE]

the area from St. Marks to Cape San Blas has been set aside by the state for research purposes.No contracts are issued for those areas.i got this info from the state back in 2004.dont think anything has changed since then,but you can call to make sure.just to be on the safe side.

Division of Historical Resources
Bureau of Archaeological Research
500 S. Bronough St.
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250
(850) 245-6335

 

[ivan salis]

yep fisheye you are 100 % correct-----there are indeed 4 "no hunt" protected "historical research zones" in the state of florida that have been "set aside" and you do not want to be caught in or very near them with detecting gear--its a wise treasure hunter knows where these spots are and steers clear of em---Ivan

 

[FISHEYE]

The area from St. Augustine to Matanzas Inlet is a reserve area that was set aside by the state for research purposes

 

[G.I.B.]

This is probably where the pirate term 'ARRRRRRRRRG!' came from.

Previously honest folks dealing with government 'officials'.

I really like the SC law, thanks for sharing that. I would love to get involved with something like that.

I'm mailing a copy of it to:

Division of Historical Resources
Bureau of Archaeological Research
500 S. Bronough St.
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250

 

[JoeSWFla]

Sorry to hear about the run-in with the law.You are not along in getting angry
about it.It 's just a matter of one group being better organized and having
more influence with the governing bodies. If enough people in the MD and
diving hobbies get together and lobby for change there might be more
balance and fairness in the law.Like the case in Alabama.It makes me very
angry to think they can make a felon out of an otherwise law-abidding
citizen just to keep everything for themselves.A definite abuse of law
enforcement-turning it against the people.I hope change is on the
horizon.but it will take a lot of writing and calling to get it moving.Until
then ,enjoy it as much as posssible and be careful.HH Joe

 

[keegah]

where exactly can you be in the water w/a metal detector in the state of florida.i'm in ft pierce and as far as i know i can't be in the water where the fishers have leases or historical areas or the icw.is there anywhere that will tell me where i can dive w/an uw md in fla?i don't want to go to jail or have my truck repo'ed. hmmm, i AM still making payments on it.lol

 

[macblastr]

thats why i have leans on everything i own... then they can pay the "lean" off and take whatever...

 

[pcolaboy]

From my understanding of the law, you cannot retrieve anything historical in nature (gray area on the exact definition of this) from Florida lands including submerged lands. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Here is the link where you can find the actual statutes:
http://www.flheritage.com/archaeology/underwater/laws.cfm

The place where I can routinely find things literally being dragged out with the tide is not listed as a historical site on any federal, state, county, or municipal record. It was studied by the University of West Florida Underwater Archaeology group back in the 1990's but very few details of their findings have been made public. To my knowledge there have not been any further studies done on the area by anyone other than a few civic groups wanting to control erosion from the beach nearby.

I guess what sickens me most is that the most influencial of these empowered archaeologists personally publish many books on their various projects and the proceeds do NOT go to the state or the university (not to mention tax payers) that funded their research to begin with. Talk about conflicts in interest.

Honestly, if I found a virgin, historic wreck by some miracle of God, I would seriously not even think of disturbing it until I obtained proper permits. The sites that I want to relic hunt, however, have been broken to bits and scattered by hurricanes, dredges, shrimp nets, etc. for over two hundred years. I want these items to be in our museum not lost for eternity. If anyone on this board wants to organize some serious protests with the State, I'm your boy.

Pcola

 

[pcolaboy]

Were you right off where the USS Lexington used to stay tied up? My cousin has dove for flounder right there and he said he has seen all kind of stuff laying around. You are correct how does letting it rust or being torn up by storms (news alert, we will have more hurricanes in the next 100 years) save the relics for future generations??

MichaelB

Hey Michael,

I know the area you are referring to very well but its not near the area I've been checking out lately. Unfortunately, after 9/11 the Navy extended its exclusion zone (no man's land) which swallowed up this site as well as at least 4 very interesting wrecks that I know of.

Whenever you get yourself certified to dive (hint, hint) we'll go take a look at some of my spots and maybe even go look for the Tecumseh.

Pcola

 

[Gold_Needle]

Hmm,

Sink the Marine Patrol.

I like the idea of divers getting training to legally recover (keep? :PP) what they find.

Sometimes an act of piracy is the right course of action.

 

[southern maine diver]

Aye Cap'n...

Should we "Ram em" or just use the swivel gun?

Where are the fuses and who brought the matches?

Harr Harr, matey

Wayne

 

[coin_diver]

Doesn't this kindof smell like the illegalization of gold ownership in '34, or perhaps the prohibition era for alcohol? Well these monkeys create a self-perpetuating cluster**** whereby they infuriate the people so bad that items and wreck will still be incovered, yet kept hidden, or made so much valuable that a profitable undermarket exists.
Now we come to overlapping jurisdictions where you can get stopped by 6 different agencies on the same body of water in 1 day. All so they enforce the new laws.

I'm still waiting for some archaeologist to convince me that opening tombs going back 1500 yrs is anything less then grave desecration, oh yea, they'll keep it locked in boxes in a wharehouse. Or tell me again about the historical significance of a 1935 quarter. We won't win this argument guys, too many special interests with a bunch more gov't money to fight. And no, another scuba arm patch won't mean diddly.

 

[Peg Leg]

I recall that a good number of years ago a Game Warden named RED MORGAN who lived in Titusville was patrolling Merritt Island (before it was KSC).
He came across some guys who were Duck Hunting without a Hunting License.
He said that they were under arrest and that he was going to take their boat, trailer and truck and put them in jail. He made one mistake. He did not FIRST TAKE THEIR shotguns.
He was tied up and his boat was shop to pieces. HE WAS NOT SHOT AND WAS PUT INTO THE BOAT WHICH WAS IN SHALLOW WATER. The guys called the Sheriffs Office and told them where he could be found.
They never caught the guys but Red Morgan DID have a change in ATTITUDE and turned out to be a pretty good guy after that.
Today it is a different ball game altogether.
Lets say you have a boat worth $20,000 and equipment worth another $20,000 plus a truck worth $20,000 and you are facing losing your home.
My friends there are still some REAL PIRATES out there who will BLOW YOUR BUTT AWAY before they lose everything they own.
Just a little reminded that things are not as they may appear.
Peg Leg

 

[Gold_Needle]

Ahoy,

Aye Wayne they should be rammed.

Now if an archaeologist was aboard then it should be done correctly...... we should use an ancient Greek ship as was used against the Persians--- it had a battering ram on the front. I am sure the archaeologist would appreciate the respect for historical accuracy.