La Belle – the wreck that laid forgotten for three centuries

[eyemustdigtreasure]

La Belle – the wreck that laid forgotten for three centuries – it single-handedly changed history...(really did!)
....read on.......

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016...ee-centuries-single-handedly-changed-history/

 

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[Blak bart]

And now it will lie hidden in some archeological prison for another 3 centuries !!!

 

[Darren in NC]

Great story. Awesome history. Another example of "in situ" and "grave site" argument out the window.

 

[Gold Maven]

Great story, as soon as we are done removing and reassembling it, spending millions, the French claim it.

Leaving it in Texas is a good idea, if they ever come for it, I say we bury it back where it was.

 

[MPH200]

I remember seeing the coffer dam in the bay when they were recovering her.
I need to go see the museum.

La Belle- The Exhibit

 

[G.I.B.]

Americans are such woosies... Do all the work and give it away.

I wonder how binding the 99 year agreement actually is.

 

[Darren in NC]

France just claimed another one we've seen from GME on here.

France claims rights to shipwreck linked to lost colony of Fort Caroline | Jacksonville News, Sports and Entertainment | jacksonville.com

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Seeing they're starting equitable return of relics legislation: I'm sure that France can be convinced to return control of all the antiquities Napoleon brought back to Paris/the Louvre Museum to their rightful owners in Egypt.

 

[eyemustdigtreasure]

Charlie P. (NY) - you are right!
It's thievery on the high seas!
Someone salvages something, and taken away,
certainly the costs of the recovery, should be awarded to the salvors.! The least one could do.
otherwise the country would be considered....Greedy!
I thought France was our friends..., our allies...?!

 

[signumops]

For several years GME had done an extraordinary job of executing the permitted exploration of a number of areas along Cape Canaveral. In fact, Florida's Secretary of State, Ken Detzner, applauded GME for their exemplary work. According to Bobby Pritchett, Detzner told him that:

"...they (GME) had done some of the best work done in the last 25 years, and GME had managed to do what the state could not do."

The permits had been issued consecutively from south to north... until this amazing discovery of the monument and French cannon was made. Then, according to Bobby Pritchett, all communication between the Florida bureaucrats and GME went dead. GME had applied for additional permits moving north around False Cape, but the company's applications remained unanswered. Now comes forward the explicit argument made by the French to the Department of State: the French had no desire to let the wreck be "explored commercially". France, being a signatory of the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage, claims that shipwrecks are to be preserved for "all humanity". It's no secret that the majority of professional archaeologists in the United States support the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage, and wish that the United States was a signatory as well. The United States is not a signatory of the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage, ergo any expectation by the Republic of France that we should act as if the state of Florida, or the United States is governed by that convention is merely pretense. So, in fact, the French are not only asserting ownership rights, they now intend to dictate policy to the United States where our own laws are concerned as if we should apply those laws regarding our sovereign waters according to French mandates and UN conventions that we do not agree to.

It remains to be seen if France intends to salvage the contested artifacts themselves, or if they intend to let American interests, either federal, state, or both, pay for all the heavy lifting, and then, as with the La Belle, claim ownership. While it is a fact that some arrangement was made between the United States and France wherein France permits Texas to maintain control of the La Belle artifacts for 99 years, there is no such guarantee for a similar arrangement in the instance of what I will now refer to as "Site 2", the designator assigned by GME to the shipwreck debris scatter containing the stone monument and bronze cannon.

Furthermore, this is not a situation where a coffer dam could be used, and the LAMP methods used 20 miles north at the High Cuts of Canaveral National Seashore were a complete bust. Unless the American public raises hell, all of this historic wreckage will simply continue to decay at sea. I think the worst part of this story is the disregard government agencies have for our fellow citizens who act according to law, in good faith, and with commendable aptitude. Conceding morality on these issues is NOT a matter of our law.

A new Signum Ops edition of "A Hundred Giants - New Discoveries" is due out this spring covering all of these developments. It will be in B/W so I can distribute it at a reasonable price.

 

[old man]

Terry, Great post. I have just two questions.
Doesn't France have to Prove that GME's wreck is a French ship ?
Didn't some ships carry cannons from more than one Country?

 

[signumops]

Terry, Great post. I have just two questions.
Doesn't France have to Prove that GME's wreck is a French ship ?
Didn't some ships carry cannons from more than one Country?

Yes, I would think that France does have to prove there is a French WARSHIP at Site 2, and yes, ships definitely carried cannon from various nations. I know these questions are simply reflective, but finding the monument in concert with the marked cannon would fly in the face of logic otherwise. The monument weighs over a thousand pounds according to the dimensions recorded by Bill Seliger Jr. If you were Menendez, or anyone other than a Frenchman, would you bother to carry the thing around in one piece? Would it not be more convenient to break it into pieces so you could man-handle it easier? If you were required by King Phillip II to remove it and send it back to Spain, would the king give a care if it were broken into pieces? I think that was Phillip's general desire overall.

I think the main argument here should be that OUR State Department should require France to pay a Finder's Fee to GME, and GME should be allowed to determine that fee exactly to the dollar before France has anything more to say about this. If France balks, then Florida should be required to pay GME the same, OR, GME should be permitted to make the salvage and deal with the DHR on the original terms. If France is so interested in maintaining their paternity, then they can bid on the artifacts in the free market (that is another issue they seem to be screaming about at the moment, fearing a tariff war with the U.S.).

 

[capt dom]

For several years GME had done an extraordinary job of executing the permitted exploration of a number of areas along Cape Canaveral. In fact, Florida's Secretary of State, Ken Detzner, applauded GME for their exemplary work. According to Bobby Pritchett, Detzner told him that:

"...they (GME) had done some of the best work done in the last 25 years, and GME had managed to do what the state could not do."

The permits had been issued consecutively from south to north... until this amazing discovery of the monument and French cannon was made. Then, according to Bobby Pritchett, all communication between the Florida bureaucrats and GME went dead. GME had applied for additional permits moving north around False Cape, but the company's applications remained unanswered. Now comes forward the explicit argument made by the French to the Department of State: the French had no desire to let the wreck be "explored commercially". France, being a signatory of the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage, claims that shipwrecks are to be preserved for "all humanity". It's no secret that the majority of professional archaeologists in the United States support the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage, and wish that the United States was a signatory as well. The United States is not a signatory of the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage, ergo any expectation by the Republic of France that we should act as if the state of Florida, or the United States is governed by that convention is merely pretense. So, in fact, the French are not only asserting ownership rights, they now intend to dictate policy to the United States where our own laws are concerned as if we should apply those laws regarding our sovereign waters according to French mandates and UN conventions that we do not agree to.

It remains to be seen if France intends to salvage the contested artifacts themselves, or if they intend to let American interests, either federal, state, or both, pay for all the heavy lifting, and then, as with the La Belle, claim ownership. While it is a fact that some arrangement was made between the United States and France wherein France permits Texas to maintain control of the La Belle artifacts for 99 years, there is no such guarantee for a similar arrangement in the instance of what I will now refer to as "Site 2", the designator assigned by GME to the shipwreck debris scatter containing the stone monument and bronze cannon.

Furthermore, this is not a situation where a coffer dam could be used, and the LAMP methods used 20 miles north at the High Cuts of Canaveral National Seashore were a complete bust. Unless the American public raises hell, all of this historic wreckage will simply continue to decay at sea. I think the worst part of this story is the disregard government agencies have for our fellow citizens who act according to law, in good faith, and with commendable aptitude. Conceding morality on these issues is NOT a matter of our law.

A new Signum Ops edition of "A Hundred Giants - New Discoveries" is due out this spring covering all of these developments. It will be in B/W so I can distribute it at a reasonable price.

The rats are guarding the cheese me boy.... argh.....so, what else is
new?

 

[enrada]

When Gregg Stemm got f_____d over in the courts with the Merchant Royal, I wrote a letter to him and Melinda Carlisle(sp?) advising them to take all the 17 tons of P of 8 back to where they found it off Portugal and dump it back in the ocean. Unfortunately they set a precedence which didn't do anyone of us any favors.
Just dump the monument back in the ocean in the general location from where it was found and see if France is serious about recovering it. Maybe they will rehire you to find it and recover it.