Ship wrecked off Florida might have changed history

DeepseekerADS

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/ship-wrecked-off-florida-might-changed-history-093747040.html

Leila Macor
AFP December 14, 2016

Miami (AFP) - Treasure hunters have apparently found the 500-year-old remains of a naval expedition led by a colonizer who could have changed Florida's history, making it French-speaking at least for a while.

The big question is if the shipwreck is that of "La Trinite," the 32-gun flagship of a fleet led by Jean Ribault, a French navigator who tried to establish a Protestant colony in the southeast US under orders from King Charles IX.

They probably are, say authorities in Florida, the French government and independent archeologists.

And if they in fact are, this is an unparalleled find, said John de Bry, director of the Center for Historical Archeology, a not-for-profit organization.

"If it turns out to be 'La Trinite,' it is the most important, historically and archaeologically, the most important shipwreck ever found in North America," he told AFP.

All indications are that the shipwreck found is the real thing.

The artefacts found at the site off Cape Canaveral include three bronze cannons with markings from the reign of King Henri II, who ruled right before Charles IX; and a stone monument with the French coat of arms that was to be used to claim the new territory.

The remains are "consistent with material associated with the lost French Fleet of 1565," said Meredith Beatrice, director of communications with the Florida Department of State.

In 1565, Ribault set sail from Fort Caroline, today Jacksonville, to attack his arch-enemy, the Spaniard Pedro Menendez de Aviles, who had been sent to Florida by King Philip of Spain to thwart French plans to set up a colony.

But Ribault got caught in a hurricane, which destroyed "La Trinite" and three other galleons and ended French dreams of claiming Florida.

Ribault and hundreds of other French Huguenots were massacred by Menendez de Aviles.

- Historical interest -

"If the French had not been driven south and ships sunk by the hurricane, we would have a totally different story," said de Bry. "Florida could have been speaking French for a number of years."

In modern day Florida, archeologists and historians have been looking for this shipwreck for years.

Two years ago, an expedition from the state-run St. Augustine Lighthouse Archaeological Maritime Program gave it a shot but found nothing.

Marine archeologist Chuck Meide, who led that try, said "this is one of the most important shipwreck discoveries we have had in Florida."

The find was finally made in May of this year by a treasure hunting firm called Global Marine Exploration.

Precisely where has not been disclosed.

"It is not advisable," said French consul general Clement Leclerc.

"This is potentially a major discovery and we think it deserves a scientific and rigorous analysis and exploitation, because we think it should be later presented to the general public given its historical interest," he told AFP.

- Not French -

The one who is not happy is Robert Pritchett, the owner of GME, who says he has invested three million dollars in this gig and now runs the risk of getting nothing for his trouble.

Under laws governing shipwrecks, the United States recognizes other countries' sovereignty over warships of theirs that sink in US waters.

So Florida must -- and it plans to -- hand over the remains in this case to France.

But Pritchett does not want to end up with nothing and is promising to fight it.

"It is not a French military vessel. Tell France to prove it. They cannot. I can tell you France has no proof of anything," said Pritchett.

"We are professionals here at GME, not novice divers like LAMP and state archaeologists," he added.

The find has been kept under wraps since at least August, but came to light recently because of a legal dispute between France and GME over rights to the shipwreck.

In October GME filed a suit claiming ownership of all the remains found at the shipwreck site. But early this month France and the state of Florida filed a counter-suit.

"We are very excited and curious to see how the legal action goes, but we feel it's a very strong case for France," said Meide.
 

Darren in NC

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" A new law has been put into effect that if any sovereign nation claims a shipwreck found by any private or public organization, it must reimburse the organization for expenses incurred in the finding of the said wreck."

...said no government ever.
 

Blak bart

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Well said darren.!!!!!! They sure arnt interested in all the derelict vessels here in florida. Those wrecks anyone can have. What a bunch of robbers. If you start to make money doing something that no one else is doing the state will stop it quick . Here is an example. The state: you guys are only allowed to catch 1000 pounds of those fish a day now. Us: then we will put 2 permits on the boat so we can catch 2000 pounds a day. The state: your not allowed to do that only one permit per boat. Us: then we will register our life boat and put a permit on that. The state: you cant do that you must land your fish while in the boat the permit is registered to. Us: uahhh okay then ill put the life boat on the back deck and stand in it while we catch the second thousand pounds. The state: uhhhh thats not fair to the other boats. Us: well then they can invest in another permit and put it on a john boat and then put that jon boat on there back deck and stand in it while they fish too. The state: were pretty sure this is illegal, uhhhh were gonna look into this, uhhh you guys are really pushing it. And thats how we do it now. We fish out of a jon boat that sits on the back deck of the big boat SO WE CAN MAKE A LIVING. Totaly stupid and what a pain in the but. But we found a loophole no matter how difficult it makes life for us. Treasure hunters are going to have to think out side the box , and exploit loopholes like us commercial fisherman. Im sure the state will come back at us with somthing, but for now we win. Been that way for a while now. They seem stumped for now. This has played out over the last 6-8 years. Im sorry this story does not relate to shipwrecks or treasure but its an example of how to exploit loopholes in state and federal law. We came up with that on our own , no lawyers involved. Just reading and rereading the the wording in the laws.
 

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Salvor6

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There is a sample set before this. The Texas Historical Comisson found the French ship "La Belle" and salvaged it. France sued to get the artifacts returned to France and they worked out a deal where Texas will display the artifacts for 99 years and then they will be returned to France.
 

Old Bookaroo

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Anyone interested in this fascinating story should read Francis Parkman's Pioneers of France in the New World. There has, of course, been a great deal of scholarship since that book was published but it remains a classic.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo
 

ivan salis

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well they say they found a French marker "pillar" and French marked bronze cannons on the "wreck" and because of that the state archies are saying --it must be a French vessel ...not so fast ...the "pillar" marker was sent over on the 1562 fleet and erected near what today is called Mayport along the St Johns river -- proof of that is on page 205 in Mendel Peterson's book -- "the funnel of gold" --it has a image from a engraving by Theodore de Bry --after a drawing by Le Moyne ... which clearly shows a erected pillar with a Frenchman and Indain chief by it and natives in the background worshipping it ... so why would he French send another pillar to a already marked site ... ? not logical especially when the colony needed other supplies --they had not been supplied for 3 years (1562 /1565)...also even if they did why would it have no been off loaded at the colony? --the last thing a ship captain of that era would want is about 3 tons of dead weight slowing his vessel down in combat -- I honestly think that --the vessel is a Spanish vessel loaded with "French loot" from fort Caroline gathered up after the Spanish attack --the Spanish would have uprooted the pillar to be sent back to Spain to the king to be used as "proof" that the French were in fact trying to claim Spanish lands --thus justifying the Spanish attack upon them , also there would have been French bronze cannons at fort Caroline as well (prime military loot in those days) --and most likely French money as well off loaded at fort Caroline before the French vessels left to fight the Spanish at St Augustine
 

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ivan salis

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I think this is alot like the juno case --the us govt is getting foreign govts --to become involved in claiming wrecks against the best interests of its own citizens ..American treasure hunting companies
 

Old Bookaroo

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Is this the print?

de Bry column print.jpg

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo
 

Black Duck

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Is this the print?

View attachment 1392109

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

Yes that is exactly what GME found the top part, it is a image that can not be dined, the one in SC had a date on it so this tells u we have the one from Florida no Question, and it was in the hands of the Spanish NOT the French, now we need the judge to follow the law and be streight
And again shame on you Florida and France with NO proof at all its french or Military, you just can not go around cheating contractors that have spent 3,000,000 dollars giving you great data and info, this needs to stop now !!! right now !!
 

Peyton Manning

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There is a sample set before this. The Texas Historical Comisson found the French ship "La Belle" and salvaged it. France sued to get the artifacts returned to France and they worked out a deal where Texas will display the artifacts for 99 years and then they will be returned to France.

Texas should have replied " your ship entered our waters without the necessary permits and it has also been anchored in our waters for many years without paying docking fees. When these fees are paid in full we will send your items back
 

Salvor6

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Texas should have replied " your ship entered our waters without the necessary permits and it has also been anchored in our waters for many years without paying docking fees. When these fees are paid in full we will send your items back

Jeff this happened before Texas was even a state, before the United States even existed. They didn't need a steenking permit. :BangHead:
 

Blak bart

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Im with you jeffgordon. I like that idea. Thats thinking outside the box !!!
 

ivan salis

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yes Old Buckaroo ...it was an engraving made from a drawing made by Le Moyne --a survivor of Ft. Caroline
 

Black Duck

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yes Old Buckaroo ...it was an engraving made from a drawing made by Le Moyne --a survivor of Ft. Caroline


Here is the Monument GME found, It is the Monument that was placed on shore at,near Fort Caroline
So how can it be on the Trinity that was not carrying any monuments, ?
 

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Black Duck

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And how could it have gotten on the Trinity when it was in the hands of the Spanish when the Spanish to the area over.

Spain you are welcome to come into court also but again like France and Florida YOU HAVE NO PROOF it would have been on one of your ships and nether does France or Florida, they are being mis-informed, I would hate to be these two guys that are making false statements " I can see there career over with for making up false information they can not back up.

Trinity wrecked 90 miles north of GME's site's "90 miles",
 

ARC

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Btw... there were 4 ships in the equation(s).
 

Salvor6

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The same thing happened to Odyssey Marine. They brought up thousands of coins but no cultural artifacts to identify the wreck. It didn't matter. Spain claimed the coins came from one of their warships (with no proof) and won.
 

Blak bart

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The same thing happened to Odyssey Marine. They brought up thousands of coins but no cultural artifacts to identify the wreck. It didn't matter. Spain claimed the coins came from one of their warships (with no proof) and won.

Unfortunately for treasure salvors everywhere you are oh so right. I guess ill sign the articles of "the pirates of the martires". after all my handle is black bart.
 

Boatlode

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Maybe the new administration won't be so willing to bow to foreign countries.
 

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