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  1. #1
    us
    da book worm--researcher

    Feb 2007
    callahan,fl
    delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
    14,515
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    very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    the EL SENOR SAN MIGUEL or as its more commanly referred to SR SAN MIGUEL (nao) is often mixed up with the SAN MIGUEL (galera) aka "senora de la popa"which was a formerly dutch ship often called " LA HOLANDESA" or "Olandesa"---spanish slang for "the dutch" or "dutch" she was also called "LA GALERA" because she was a dutch galera (galley) class of vessel ---and "LA GALERA" means "the galley" in spanish ---she was captured and put into the "fleet" by ECHEVEREZ
    's "fast" pataches (a type of sloop) off cartagena ,columbia in 1714 along with "the french prize" a french frigatethat renamed "EL CIERVO".

    the SAN MIGUEL was its "religious name" given to ship for "heavenly protection"---its "offical name "given" by its owner ECHEVERZ who bougjt it in porto bello, panama for 2000 pesos was "senora de la popa" ----it was was reportly cast high and dry between the sandy point and rio mar areas--

    the ship that was reported as lost in the AMELIA ISLAND,FLA AREA was the EL SENOR SAN MIGUEL (a nao) that offically was carrying tabacco and shipment of silver coins (most likely this is why the "wreckage" of a large vessel was found 39 to 40 miles to the northward of st augustine---CAPT GENERAL ECHEVEREZ looked hard for both his lost son and his lost vessels-- "wreckage" of a large ship was found about 39 miles northward of st augustine (15 leagues--- "spanish" leagues are 2.6 miles ---15 x 2.6= is 39 miles) according to spanish reports from the cuban governor to the mexican viceroy in oct of 1715---there is also a english letter that "report" the wreck in oct of 1715 "about 40 miles to the northward of st augustine" this area is a few miles above NASSAU SOUND area were I believe the "main wreck site" I beleve to rest at ---the upper decks and debris was carried northward by the waves---it was very common for the top deck to "shear off" and break away from the bottom of the vessel --the bottom of the ship, cannons and heavy cargo sank "in place" with the top deck often being carried some way before grounding on shore.

    there have been many reports of local beach comber types finding early 1700's time frame spanish coins (both silver and gold) afterbad sea storms on the local beaches over the years

    also it has reported that a dutch cannon (with salt water crocs on it) was found in the local area---many years ago--- it was quite common for the spanish to take the dutch cannons off of captured dutch ships due to their being made of bronze and thus of better quality than the iron ones often carried by spanish ships--

    the fact that "no" gold coins or bullion was offically listed on the EL SENOR SAN MIGUEL comes as no great surprize to me since the smuggling of gold back to spain was normal and there are many accounts of spanish salvors ---often finding --more gold than was "offically" listed while they were doing their salvage efforts on sunken vessels---
    Ivan

  2. #2
    us
    Jul 2007
    Hollywood, Florida
    438
    2 times

    Re: very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    Could it be the other way around? It seems more likely that a sloop would be that far ahead of the fleet; than that a merchant ship would be that far ahead.

    Chip V.

  3. #3

    Jun 2007
    Green Cove Springs, Fl
    52

    Re: very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    So exactly how many ships are missing still? I figure there might be 4-6 on the treasure coast. It looks like one near Amelia Is, were there 11 total? Just curiouos.

  4. #4
    us
    da book worm--researcher

    Feb 2007
    callahan,fl
    delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
    14,515
    765 times
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    Re: very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    11 and 1 rather small frigatta --12 if you count it--2 of the "big" ships are totally unaccounted for at all "the french prize" ---(a frigate) and the SR SAN MIGUEL (a nao)---I honestly thinking the ship is the SR SAN MIGUEL --- however it could be "the frech prize" just as easily---to me it seems the wreck is most likely one of the two that "took a more northly tack" (or course) when the storm struck the fleet--- but of course until I have the state of florida verify my claims by inspecting the "find" ---nothing is for sure---Ivan

  5. #5

    Jun 2007
    Green Cove Springs, Fl
    52

    Re: very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    Thanks Ivan. I wonder if more than one ship took a more northerly route? Maybe there was a split up in the storm? Most went with dad, some with the son.

  6. #6
    Charter Member
    pa
    Pirate of the Ays

    May 2004
    Panama
    Minelab Excal 1000
    1,696
    59 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    Quote Originally Posted by scottone928
    So exactly how many ships are missing still? I figure there might be 4-6 on the treasure coast. It looks like one near Amelia Is, were there 11 total? Just curiouos.
    The total number of 1715 fleet ships still missing is 5.

    Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion - She reportedly wend down on the South side of Cape Canaveral with a handfull of survivors.

    El Senor San Miguel - Vanished at sea, no survivors

    La Olandesa aka San Miguel - NEVER FOUND Probably between Rio Mar and Sandy Point

    El Cievro aka La Galleria - French privateer - Captured in the harbor at Porto Bello Never found.

    Maria Galante - Built in Cuba and purchased by General Ubilla for his own Merchant Vessel, vanished with all hands.
    I stand corrected - One survivor




  7. #7

    Jun 2007
    Green Cove Springs, Fl
    52

    Re: very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    Thanks for clearing that up.

  8. #8
    Charter Member
    pa
    Pirate of the Ays

    May 2004
    Panama
    Minelab Excal 1000
    1,696
    59 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    My pleasure.

  9. #9

    May 2006
    1,520

    Re: very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    Man am I going to go out on a limb-whats new right
    BUT I believe I know where the Concepcion is or a good chance of being.
    It is NOT in the ocean but sitting high and dry buried under the sand.
    NO it is not on the Holiday Inn property.
    I will provide more information after the EXPO.
    Peg Leg

  10. #10

    Apr 2005
    863
    2 times

    Re: very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    WreckDiver 1715,

    It was suggested on a previous topic that one of five ships whose wrecks have not yet been found loaded 660 chests of emeralds in Cartagena before sailing on to Havana. Do you know if this was the case, and if so, which of the five ships you name was the one that loaded the emeralds?

    Mariner

  11. #11
    Charter Member
    pa
    Pirate of the Ays

    May 2004
    Panama
    Minelab Excal 1000
    1,696
    59 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    Quote Originally Posted by mariner
    WreckDiver 1715,

    It was suggested on a previous topic that one of five ships whose wrecks have not yet been found loaded 660 chests of emeralds in Cartagena before sailing on to Havana. Do you know if this was the case, and if so, which of the five ships you name was the one that loaded the emeralds?

    Mariner
    Mariner, remember that General Echeverz Galleons Flota was loaded in Cartagnea in July and August 0f 1714. Prior to there arrival the vast majority of treasure was shipped by mules to the west coast to avoid piracy. As a result there was less than 75,000 Pesos of treasure loaded on any of the ships in Cartagnea. There is no mention of emeralds on any of the shipping manifest. My records show that the following two Galleons and one Refuerzo are the only ships of the Galeones de Tierra Firma that carried any treasure.

    Nuestra Senora del Carmen aka the Capitana
    Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion a Refuerzo
    Nuestra Senora del Rosario aka the Almiranta


    Peg, the survivors of the Concepcion reported that she went down in deep water on the Southern Shoal of Cape Canaveral, had she been beached she would have been found and recovered.



  12. #12
    us
    da book worm--researcher

    Feb 2007
    callahan,fl
    delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
    14,515
    765 times
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    if no emeralds were loaded then were are the emeralds that are being found coming from ---maybe ubilla's ships? ---part of the queen's dowery was said to have been a rather large amount of uncut emeralds---if not on echeverz's fleet than maybe ubilla's fleet instead--)they may have been "waiting" in havana and "loaded" there and if not on either of the 1715 captian generals fleets vessels than what is the source of the often large uncut emeralds found around the 1715 sight? ---the 1618 ship maybe?---they have to have been on one of those vessels to have gotten there---Ivan

  13. #13

    May 2006
    1,520

    Re: very interesting note---on names of ships of the 1715 fleet

    Wreckdiver1715,
    Because of the latest information I now believe that the SHIPWRECK is not Spanish but could be a Frech ship that went down aorund 1659 or there abouts.
    It is in the right location and the objects that Dell is picking up fits everything.
    We will know something by this weekend.
    This should be one exciting weekend.
    If nothing else it will be different.
    Peg

 

 

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