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Thread: Very old keel?

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  1. #1
    us
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    Very old keel?

    Haven’t posted in awhile. Life’s making it a little harder to do some of the hard digging. But, as some of you know, we have had some intense nor’easters around the east coast and really churning up the ocean.
    While walking the dogs one morning I found part of a keel framing on the beach, it’s all made out of 1 tree, has multiple pegs and peg holes. It had a little iron here and there, but hard to tell how it was attached. I did see what looked like an iron plate and a dowel sticking through it.

    Y’all care to try and guess the age? It weighed approximately 500 pounds. The dog is just over 50 pounds.

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    TRG, olroy70, Red_desert and 4 others like this.
    Thomas Paine-
    "Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil," Paine wrote, and "in its worst state an intolerable one." Like many Americans today, Paine believed that government added insult to injury by using tax dollars in ways that were actually harmful to the public. "When we suffer," wrote Paine, "or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities are heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." To Paine, "securing freedom and property to all men, and, above all things, freedom of religion," were the only legitimate functions of government. Americans generally agreed, and went to war to achieve this vision.
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=233

    "People whose lives are barren and insecure seem to show a greater willingness to obey than people who are self-sufficient and self-confident. To the frustrated, freedom from responsibility is more attractive than freedom from restraint. They are eager to barter their independence for relief of the burdens of willing, deciding and being responsible for inevitable failure. They willingly abdicate the directing of their lives to those who want to plan, command and shoulder all responsibility." ~Eric Hoffer “The True Believer”

    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

  2. #2
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    Oops, forgot to mention another piece washed up the next morning, it weighs less.

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    Thomas Paine-
    "Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil," Paine wrote, and "in its worst state an intolerable one." Like many Americans today, Paine believed that government added insult to injury by using tax dollars in ways that were actually harmful to the public. "When we suffer," wrote Paine, "or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities are heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." To Paine, "securing freedom and property to all men, and, above all things, freedom of religion," were the only legitimate functions of government. Americans generally agreed, and went to war to achieve this vision.
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=233

    "People whose lives are barren and insecure seem to show a greater willingness to obey than people who are self-sufficient and self-confident. To the frustrated, freedom from responsibility is more attractive than freedom from restraint. They are eager to barter their independence for relief of the burdens of willing, deciding and being responsible for inevitable failure. They willingly abdicate the directing of their lives to those who want to plan, command and shoulder all responsibility." ~Eric Hoffer “The True Believer”

    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

  3. #3
    TRG
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    Looks like conifer wood with wide rings, although it's hard to be sure from the pictures. Eastern larch was favored in the 18th and 19th centuries by east coast shipbuilders for pieces like your first picture. Trunk and root make that natural bend at the base of trees in swampy areas. Live oak was also used for timbers taking advantage of natural bends in the trunk. Larch is not so heavy/dense a timber while live oak is very dense and heavy. Your piece could be heavy from water saturation and the associated ironmongery.

    Picture below shows raw oak ship timbers excavated from the Boston Navy Yard. Straight are mostly white oak, curved or swept are live oak. There were also larch "knees" in this lot, but not pictured. There were cut in the 1850s and 60s.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Not much help on exact age determination...
    Last edited by TRG; Mar 10, 2018 at 06:41 PM.
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  4. #4
    TRG
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    Last edited by TRG; Mar 10, 2018 at 07:14 PM.
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  5. #5
    us
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    Great picture, and a fantastic article! Those angles look exactly like that piece on the beach.
    Blak bart likes this.
    Thomas Paine-
    "Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil," Paine wrote, and "in its worst state an intolerable one." Like many Americans today, Paine believed that government added insult to injury by using tax dollars in ways that were actually harmful to the public. "When we suffer," wrote Paine, "or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities are heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." To Paine, "securing freedom and property to all men, and, above all things, freedom of religion," were the only legitimate functions of government. Americans generally agreed, and went to war to achieve this vision.
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=233

    "People whose lives are barren and insecure seem to show a greater willingness to obey than people who are self-sufficient and self-confident. To the frustrated, freedom from responsibility is more attractive than freedom from restraint. They are eager to barter their independence for relief of the burdens of willing, deciding and being responsible for inevitable failure. They willingly abdicate the directing of their lives to those who want to plan, command and shoulder all responsibility." ~Eric Hoffer “The True Believer”

    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

  6. #6

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  7. #7
    us
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    Do you think the part at the heel was laminated on? It appears to be colored differently and the grain seems different, with quite a few pegs.
    Blak bart likes this.
    Thomas Paine-
    "Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil," Paine wrote, and "in its worst state an intolerable one." Like many Americans today, Paine believed that government added insult to injury by using tax dollars in ways that were actually harmful to the public. "When we suffer," wrote Paine, "or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities are heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." To Paine, "securing freedom and property to all men, and, above all things, freedom of religion," were the only legitimate functions of government. Americans generally agreed, and went to war to achieve this vision.
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=233

    "People whose lives are barren and insecure seem to show a greater willingness to obey than people who are self-sufficient and self-confident. To the frustrated, freedom from responsibility is more attractive than freedom from restraint. They are eager to barter their independence for relief of the burdens of willing, deciding and being responsible for inevitable failure. They willingly abdicate the directing of their lives to those who want to plan, command and shoulder all responsibility." ~Eric Hoffer “The True Believer”

    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

  8. #8
    us
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    You would call that a " knee," in ancient shipbuilding.
    Blak bart likes this.

  9. #9
    us
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptEsteban View Post
    You would call that a " knee," in ancient shipbuilding.
    So that’s the patella?
    I think you are right.
    Thomas Paine-
    "Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil," Paine wrote, and "in its worst state an intolerable one." Like many Americans today, Paine believed that government added insult to injury by using tax dollars in ways that were actually harmful to the public. "When we suffer," wrote Paine, "or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities are heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." To Paine, "securing freedom and property to all men, and, above all things, freedom of religion," were the only legitimate functions of government. Americans generally agreed, and went to war to achieve this vision.
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=233

    "People whose lives are barren and insecure seem to show a greater willingness to obey than people who are self-sufficient and self-confident. To the frustrated, freedom from responsibility is more attractive than freedom from restraint. They are eager to barter their independence for relief of the burdens of willing, deciding and being responsible for inevitable failure. They willingly abdicate the directing of their lives to those who want to plan, command and shoulder all responsibility." ~Eric Hoffer “The True Believer”

    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

  10. #10
    us
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff-gordon View Post
    17th century
    It looks like that to me too. How have you been?
    Thomas Paine-
    "Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil," Paine wrote, and "in its worst state an intolerable one." Like many Americans today, Paine believed that government added insult to injury by using tax dollars in ways that were actually harmful to the public. "When we suffer," wrote Paine, "or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities are heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." To Paine, "securing freedom and property to all men, and, above all things, freedom of religion," were the only legitimate functions of government. Americans generally agreed, and went to war to achieve this vision.
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=233

    "People whose lives are barren and insecure seem to show a greater willingness to obey than people who are self-sufficient and self-confident. To the frustrated, freedom from responsibility is more attractive than freedom from restraint. They are eager to barter their independence for relief of the burdens of willing, deciding and being responsible for inevitable failure. They willingly abdicate the directing of their lives to those who want to plan, command and shoulder all responsibility." ~Eric Hoffer “The True Believer”

    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

  11. #11

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    cool find i like beach combing you just never know whats gunna float up
    Blak bart likes this.

  12. #12
    TRG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave44 View Post
    Do you think the part at the heel was laminated on? It appears to be colored differently and the grain seems different, with quite a few pegs.
    Possibly, but the color difference may just be the result of another timber remaining attached there for some period of time. Grain doesn't seem discontinuous to me.

    Did you detect in that area of beach? Maybe more than timbers washed up...

  13. #13
    us
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRG View Post
    Possibly, but the color difference may just be the result of another timber remaining attached there for some period of time. Grain doesn't seem discontinuous to me.

    Did you detect in that area of beach? Maybe more than timbers washed up...
    unfortunately I haven’t had the time yet, but I told my wife the same thing.
    About a year ago I found a bunch of little pieces of copper that I thought was trash in that area. Once I cleaned some of the stuff up I found I had a back of a button, the next day there was nothing.
    More time and energy would be nice!
    TRG and olroy70 like this.
    Thomas Paine-
    "Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil," Paine wrote, and "in its worst state an intolerable one." Like many Americans today, Paine believed that government added insult to injury by using tax dollars in ways that were actually harmful to the public. "When we suffer," wrote Paine, "or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities are heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." To Paine, "securing freedom and property to all men, and, above all things, freedom of religion," were the only legitimate functions of government. Americans generally agreed, and went to war to achieve this vision.
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=233

    "People whose lives are barren and insecure seem to show a greater willingness to obey than people who are self-sufficient and self-confident. To the frustrated, freedom from responsibility is more attractive than freedom from restraint. They are eager to barter their independence for relief of the burdens of willing, deciding and being responsible for inevitable failure. They willingly abdicate the directing of their lives to those who want to plan, command and shoulder all responsibility." ~Eric Hoffer “The True Believer”

    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

  14. #14
    BRC
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    It looks like a rudder...Should be in two pieces, lengthwise...The length will determine the size of the ship/boat....

  15. #15
    us
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    Found another piece, about a 1/4 mike down current. High on the beach and apparently everybody walks right by it.
    How do you feel about wooden pegs and big brass nails? Maybe 1/2” diameter.
    its about 14 ft long and even though it’s sanded way down it’s super heavy.
    Walking these dogs might kill me!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Dave44; Mar 13, 2018 at 09:42 PM.
    MPH200, AARC and TRG like this.
    Thomas Paine-
    "Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil," Paine wrote, and "in its worst state an intolerable one." Like many Americans today, Paine believed that government added insult to injury by using tax dollars in ways that were actually harmful to the public. "When we suffer," wrote Paine, "or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities are heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." To Paine, "securing freedom and property to all men, and, above all things, freedom of religion," were the only legitimate functions of government. Americans generally agreed, and went to war to achieve this vision.
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=233

    "People whose lives are barren and insecure seem to show a greater willingness to obey than people who are self-sufficient and self-confident. To the frustrated, freedom from responsibility is more attractive than freedom from restraint. They are eager to barter their independence for relief of the burdens of willing, deciding and being responsible for inevitable failure. They willingly abdicate the directing of their lives to those who want to plan, command and shoulder all responsibility." ~Eric Hoffer “The True Believer”

    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

 

 
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