How long before admiralty can be challenged?

[Darren in NC]

I know of a number of admiralty arrests that seem to be abandoned, since no work has been done for years. Does anyone have experience to share how long it takes for an arrest to be challenged? Yes, I know I should speak to a maritime attorney, but at $400 per hour on my last visit, I thought I'd test the waters here first.

 

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[capt dom]

The problem with Admiralty Law now is using it is like kicking a "dead horse!"

Jupiter Wreck Inc. operated under the conception that it had the protection of the Admiralty Courts for over 30 years. We entered into a settlement agreement with the State of Florida to get permission to move their sand off of our shipwreck way back in 1990. The Unique Agreement was suppose to respect the Rights of the Admiralty Court to maintain jurisdiction and to make annual salvage awards to us based upon our continued efforts... Fast forward to 2015 and the State screws with us, {probably because we were not paying payments to a certain lobbyist} ... our lawyer calls for a status conference in the Federal Case and the Magistrate says, " This case was closed in 1990" "The shipwreck belongs now to the State"!!! Now this was and is a bullshit ruling but the presiding Federal Judge signed it! Of course we had to appeal it. The Appealette Court agrees to hear our argument but does not recognize that the State Court never entered in to an action to place a Color of Title in its own Courts...

What's all this mean Our attorney got another $50,000.00 - we are getting our dicks put into our hands and the Appealette Court Judges are scratching their heads and if we await for their final ruling that is just going to try and back them {the Feds} out of our Admiralty Jurisdiction - that should have been upheld by the very fact the State never even entered the action under the 11th Amendment Rule...

 

[xaos]

Look at the SS Central America case law.

The way I look at it personally, an Admiralty Arrest on a shipwreck, is a misuse of the foundation of why this was created, to provide a means of assistance to ships in peril that were sinking, for other ships to help the vessel survive, but more to help the crew survive. It provided an incentive for other ships to respond to one in peril.

For a shipwreck on the bottom, there is no peril associated with this, that another ship has to respond to rescue the crew nor the vessel. The only peril is the sea state and financial in the recovery associated with on the bottom. That was not the intent of the Law.

The foundation of Admiralty Arrest, the ability to assist the crew or the vessel, with a shipwreck on the bottom and the peril involved in the assistance has long gone.

Law of Finds. This is far more applicable, but again, misused on shipwrecks. The cargo is not floating around, nor washed up on shore. It is set on the bottom. If the wreck has been abandoned, or fully paid off by insurance, then the owner certainly has given up the right to procure salvage. In the case of an Insurance payoff, this means that ownership has transferred to the insurance company.
A wreck sitting on the bottom, is a fixed asset, not flotsam and jetsam. and the owner has the right to refuse and/or pay for a recovery. Just because you find it, it is not the Law of
Finds as defined by the provisions/definitions of the law.
There is a big difference between a finders fee and the Law of Finds.

It is far past the time for salvors looking at historic shipwreck recovery, to find a different legal avenue to protect, secure, and recover their find.

It would be best for all sides to come to a consensus, and balance the archeological with the profit. Else, there will be illicit recovery, with no archeological context, which diminishes the value of the artefacts, and adds nothing to historical archaeology.

Afterall, if that coin could not be dated, or have some sort of archaeological provenance, it simply becomes another piece of spot price gold, just like the fakes.

ie an silver coin is worth $60, but with an Atocha cert, is worth $200..

 

[Au_Dreamers]

So if one doesn't need an archaeologist to date a coin then why should one be forced to include them?

An Atocha 8 reale is worth $3,200 because of marketing.


But to be on topic instead of interjecting my ideology into every thread without staying on topic....

I believe if you have the money to pay the lawyers to file, time isn't an issue.

Certain "contracts" with governing bodies might have time frames and requirements written within them, so there's $$ to lawyers just to research a viable one to "go after".

Sadly imho it's not a dead end, it's the end of the end. Even with President Trump, the establishment is just too large, their footholds too embedded. Our "endeavors" (shipwrecks) is such a small aspect of the world that really few people care or are concerned. Outside of the movie Titanic and press release when treasure is found ( by private sector salvage) we're a smudge in the worlds purview.

But it seems like many things in today's world the small collective group of people that do care are on a completely polar opposite belief of how shipwrecks should be managed.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Secondary thought(s) How would that work? You can no longer claim an admiralty within a state's waters.

If, let's just say a certain State in the U.S. has an admiralty on file for a shipwreck within their submerged lands and they have bureaucrats that govern said activity and those certain bureaucrats would love nothing more than to see the outright permanent end to private sector salvage one could think that if an entity came along and used their own time and monies to prove that an admiralty holder shouldn't remain in possession of said admiralty, they would intervene and block a new entity making the admiralty vanish like the shipwreck sought after.

I think possibly a solution would be to contact the current entity and offer to buy their entity that owns the admiralty, or work a deal to subcontract salvage within their admiralty.