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  1. #151
    us
    ARC

    Aug 2014
    Bahia Espiritu Santo de Tampa - La Florida
    JW 8X V.2 - ML X2 - VP 580
    20,436
    50140 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Skream1 View Post
    You tell 'em AARC. I agree it is unlikely a church bell.
    What the funk... Scream1... where have you been through all this ?

    And this is all you add ?

    Um,... was it you OR not you that found this bell ?

    IF it was you OR you have seen this in person... WHAT IS THE SIZE ?

    You have been noticeably silent on this... correct me if I am wrong but YOU posted this thing for solve correct... so why no input or responses to questions... are you not reading the thread / keeping up with us ?

    Listen... I love a good solve but hey man its work at times... I love it so its not really "work" but it helps if you PARTAKE in the "quest" for a solve.

    Not just mutter a quick response then split without further anything.

    Not giving you crap... just wondering here... what gives ?
    Blak bart and BillA like this.
    Have permission... Fill holes... Dispose of trash. - The Random Chat Thread - http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ev...en-24-7-a.html

  2. #152
    us
    ARC

    Aug 2014
    Bahia Espiritu Santo de Tampa - La Florida
    JW 8X V.2 - ML X2 - VP 580
    20,436
    50140 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by BillA View Post
    jeez ARC, not meant to imply that this artifact was a church bell - slow down
    the comment was about a palmetto border (on a much later larger bell bell)

    I too suspect that more info will not be forthcoming, the OP was not the finder and the finder did not seem enthused - and why would he be?
    The finder is liable to get a THing lesson about posting photos.
    See what happens

    Bill
    Just the way I come across.

    No intention.
    Blak bart likes this.
    Have permission... Fill holes... Dispose of trash. - The Random Chat Thread - http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ev...en-24-7-a.html

  3. #153
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,059
    1443 times
    yea, I was a bit mystified when the supposed finder appears, only to encourage your misunderstanding . . . .
    that he chose to ignore the outstanding requests tells me more than enough, ciao

    Bill
    AARC likes this.

  4. #154
    us
    Jan 2013
    Maryland
    Bounty Hunter
    1,347
    1374 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by AARC View Post
    What the funk... Scream1... where have you been through all this ?

    And this is all you add ?

    Um,... was it you OR not you that found this bell ?

    IF it was you OR you have seen this in person... WHAT IS THE SIZE ?

    You have been noticeably silent on this... correct me if I am wrong but YOU posted this thing for solve correct... so why no input or responses to questions... are you not reading the thread / keeping up with us ?

    Listen... I love a good solve but hey man its work at times... I love it so its not really "work" but it helps if you PARTAKE in the "quest" for a solve.

    Not just mutter a quick response then split without further anything.

    Not giving you crap... just wondering here... what gives ?
    Skream1 didn't post it for solve. Salvor 6 posted it, and said it was found by a friend. In his first post Skream1 called Salvor 1 out on it saying he didn't know him and asked whether Salvor1 had lifted the photo from a short lived Instagram post. Skream1 did not seem to be thrilled about the post but has welcomed the feedback.

    Having said all of that, I'd like to know the dimensions of the bell too.
    Blak bart, BillA, AARC and 1 others like this.

  5. #155
    br
    Jul 2018
    448
    535 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Found another artefact resource that seems to be pretty close to this one?

    Because, well....size matters.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Skream1 did not seem to be thrilled about the post but has welcomed the feedback.
    I would appreciate it if someone in the group might direct me to where I could possibly begin researching the origin of this artifact or give me an opinion of what the marking means. So far, without a definitive name to research, I am just stabbing in the dark.

    Ships Bell Found

    One would expect some basic feedback on the artefact, given that help in identification has been asked for?

    There is already an image, why not an image of the entire bell, instead of a sketch? Basic dimensions? I am actually concerned that the OP stated that encrustations would not be removed...(ref artefact conservation 101)
    Last edited by xaos; Apr 25, 2019 at 11:07 AM.
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  6. #156
    us
    Jan 2013
    Maryland
    Bounty Hunter
    1,347
    1374 times
    Metal Detecting
    This thread was started on March 14th by Salvor 6. On April 6th Skream1 created an account and questioned Salvor 6 in this thread about being friends and where he got the photo.

    Skream1 then started his own thread, sans photo, with a sketch that is purportedly the back side of the bell. So while he didn't start this thread he apparently did start A thread asking for help with ID. I stand corrected.

    So how big is the bell? Inquiring minds still want to know.
    AARC and doc-d like this.

  7. #157
    br
    Jul 2018
    448
    535 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    no worries...

    So how big is the bell? Inquiring minds still want to know.
    See my post above!

    (very concerned about AARC in all of this.....)
    AARC likes this.
    I love the taste of water, frozen into squares, and surrounded by rum

  8. #158
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,059
    1443 times
    nice photo xaos, but it is not a thimble

    Bill
    AARC likes this.

  9. #159
    br
    Jul 2018
    448
    535 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    well, the lunatics will postulate until we get some details!

    Sorry, its cold, cant splash today...and nothing more dangerous than a bored diver...
    AARC likes this.
    I love the taste of water, frozen into squares, and surrounded by rum

  10. #160
    Windrider

    Mar 2014
    593
    767 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    originally posted by BillA
    none of Columbus' ships had a bell at all
    Bill
    to me it is apparent that you have not read Columbus's ship log of discovery.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    and these bells are just what was taken ashore in the long boats on the first landing. You must think about it, as all crew had noise makers, because they were all wanting to be known as first to sight land so they could collect from the king the reward promised for first to sight land. Columbus was educated by the Italians on captaining ships. During his higher education he came upon the Chinese Map that Marco Polo had brought back with him and Columbus had a copy of the map for the voyage. I can see it now Columbus standing in the building that now houses the Archive of the Indies and saying to the king " It is ok that our ships have no voice (that is what the bells were called) because there are no other ships out there in the middle of the ocean!"

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Besides that was Columbus even the first ship to visit the northern Caribbean Islands? on his first landing he saw Natives with gold coins that were worn as jewelry. Try as he might the Natives would not give up the coins. The Natives told the Spanish that the gold came from what is now known as Cuba.
    Last edited by sailaway; Apr 26, 2019 at 05:49 PM.
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  11. #161
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,059
    1443 times
    bells as ornaments do not equate to a ship's bell
    read on the Santa Maria bell, apparently it is known that none of the 3 ships had a (ship's) bell

    "to me it is apparent that you have not read Columbus's ship log of discovery";
    quite correct, nor has your quote revealed anything about a ship's bell

    Bill
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  12. #162
    Windrider

    Mar 2014
    593
    767 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    It did not say bells as ornaments were traded Bill.
    I own a 37' sailboat and have on board a 8" bell that would be considered small compared to large ships bell. Here is the rule for bells on ships "Sound-producing Device (bell, horn, whistle, etc.) ... need not meet any particular specifications, as long as the vessel can produce signals required by the navigational rules." What are the rules?you may ask?...46 CFR 169.815 - Emergency signals, and 33 CFR 83.35 - Sound signals in restricted visibility (Rule 35) In fog, mist, or falling snow, whether by day or night, (1) The first alarm signal must be the continuous ringing of the general alarm bells for not less than 10 seconds at intervals of not more than one minute ring the bell rapidly.

    International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (COLREGS)
    (a)These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters ... (c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that ...... The whistle, bell, and gong shall comply with the specifications in Annex III

    These rule have been Law since 1880, do you think that it was not practiced before then? Columbus's voyage was not a Military Expedition, so readers who expect to see the ringing of the bells in the log are wrong.

    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Mar%C3%ADa_(barco)

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...215357945.html
    Last edited by sailaway; Apr 27, 2019 at 08:05 AM.
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  13. #163
    cr
    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    1,059
    1443 times
    Quote Originally Posted by sailaway View Post
    It did not say bells as ornaments were traded Bill.
    . . . .
    too much work to copy your image of someone's translation that contradicts your statement
    ". . . for other things that we gave them, such as glass beads and small bells."
    if you wish to parse something, try to get it right

    this is the bell to which I previously referred Blagovest Bells— 'Santa Maria bell' auction and seizure
    there are a host of related links evaluating this bell (found off Portugal) and one of those mentioned that the Santa Maria did not have a ship's bell, nor either of the 2 smaller ships

    sailaway, are you trying to assert that Columbus' ships had bells?
    links please, not your speculation

    Bill
    Last edited by BillA; Apr 27, 2019 at 11:24 AM. Reason: grammer
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  14. #164
    br
    Jul 2018
    448
    535 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    These rule have been Law since 1880, do you think that it was not practiced before then? Columbus's voyage was not a Military Expedition, so readers who expect to see the ringing of the bells in the log are wrong.
    The original use for a ships bell had nothing to do with warnings per navigation rules. One of the most common uses was for the telling of time on the ship. When the hourglass ran out, the bell was chimed to signal it had been turned.

    Now, here we go. Timing was a relative new thing in the late 1400's, because time was used for distance calculations, and to really use this, you need to have a map.

    There are records of ships bells all the way back to the Bronze Age.

    Another use, somewhat lost, was the use as a ranging device. In inclement weather, especially fog, they would sound the bell would listen for the echo. No echo meant nothing out there.

    If there was an echo, it meant there was some sort of obstacle out there. Counting the time to the echo game them a warning of the distance to the obstacle, closing on it or moving away from it.

    Think of the ships bell as the old school predecessor to Sound Navigation and Ranging. (SONAR)

    I can certainly see why a recovered bell would not be from the Santa maria, and there was ample time to recover that wreck and use the timbers, so nothing would have been left such as the bell, as a shipwreck artefact.

    But the bell comments take me back. While there may not be the mention of the use of the ships bell for timekeeping, there are other recorded uses. Bells have been used for a long, long time for various reasons.

    I recall reading that on the Columbus trip, the natives were amazed by the sound of the ships bell? Not to mention adding bells to themselves and the animals to scare the natives.

    Why would the Columbus fleet not have bells?
    Last edited by xaos; Apr 27, 2019 at 06:23 PM.
    AARC likes this.
    I love the taste of water, frozen into squares, and surrounded by rum

  15. #165
    us
    ARC

    Aug 2014
    Bahia Espiritu Santo de Tampa - La Florida
    JW 8X V.2 - ML X2 - VP 580
    20,436
    50140 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Wellllllllllll... I had to come back in to the thread on this...

    BECAUSE... there IS a bell that eerily resembles THIS bell... one I have been scrutinizing / comparing to OP's bell for some time now...

    AND allegedly / supposedly did come from a Columbus ship.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by AARC; Apr 28, 2019 at 05:17 AM.
    Have permission... Fill holes... Dispose of trash. - The Random Chat Thread - http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ev...en-24-7-a.html

 

 
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