Who Owns Legal Salvage Rights for Shipwreck? - Page 2
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  1. #16
    pt
    Oct 2009
    Lisbon
    968
    313 times
    Not UNESCO. But, the US and the UK, do.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...gned-uk-and-us



    Quote Originally Posted by Magoopeter View Post
    Does UNESCO have legal power?
    AARC and PetesPockets55 like this.

  2. #17
    ie
    Mr

    Jan 2016
    Ireland
    underwater
    55
    90 times
    Shipwrecks
    No doubt a bunch of ill-informed academics behind this, it limits the countries you can operate from or return to but does not fully protect the wreck.

    This has a very negative effect on the archaeology community and has grave consequence for historically important shipwrecks worldwide. If UNESSCO, s policy wins through, every wreck will be left to rot on the seabed. How can they say a wreck is protected by the very nature of the oceans, mechanical attrition, decomposition of organic material and the process if galvanic corrosion wrecks will slowly dissolve into the seabed?

    The article again brings forwarded the issue of a shipwreck being a grave, the whole of Europe is a grave, indeed a war grave, it does not stop farmers farming or motor ways being built, instead when a grave is discovered proactive measures are taken and archaeologist employed to insure the remain are removed to be buried in a proper respectful manner in a proper place.

    Governments in general, and the archaeological community in particular, especially the underwater archaeological academic world, have been strongly opposed to, and very combative against, the practices of any kind of commercial work performed on historical shipwrecks. They have done so with extremism and determination, succeeding in describing anybody involved in this practice as a “treasure hunter”, a “pirate”, a “tomb robber” or worse. Their main complaint is that salvage companies do not care about preserving history, because they are only interested in the artefacts, or conducting sound archaeological practices (not always necessarily true), but only about making money for their investors (mostly true).
    Their main argument is that by selling these items recovered from the sea, and dividing or splitting the collection, the integrity of the archaeological record is lost. As a result, the treasures and artefacts are spread all over the world, to be sold to collectors or tourists, and its access to the general public, and the academic community, vanishes forever (which is actually a valid point).
    Archaeology is the study of a million years of human behaviour. Compared to other arts and humanities, archaeology is as valuable as music, art, literature and history. It should not be used to limit humanity by siding with unrealistic measures that denies humans the right to continue practice that have been taking place for hundreds of years.

    By placing exclusions on shipwrecks, we are abounding such a wealth of educational material in the seabed, that through partnership with archaeologist and salvor, s could provide such a vital resource for todays and future generations to study.
    A balance is needed, policy and guide lines put in place by all governments to allow commercial salvage on historical shipwrecks. In some cases guide lines would forbid the sale of artefacts, therefore a trust would need to be formed to keep complete collections together with only a cross section artefacts being held or displayed in a Museum, coins and bullion should be sold, how many coins do you need sitting in a museum after all they are legal tender a commodity more than an artefact.

    Most countries have cultural patrimony laws that prohibit the sale of artefacts recovered from the ocean floor. Therefore, there is no incentive to find and excavate these thousands of shipwrecks. Similarly, local government and their institutions are not able to attempt these endeavours on their own, due to the very high costs and the ever-shrinking heritage and cultural department budgets. Everyone loses under the current regime: commercial archaeology companies do not get to develop underwater projects; scientists, historians and archaeologists do not get to do their academic work; the public does not get to enjoy the exhibits; and cities that could host them do not get to benefit from the commercial development that these shipwrecks provide and represent as proven tourist attractions, a whole industry is left on the sea bed, everybody loses.

    It is time to get proactive about shipwrecks, to have a way forward that protects everyone’s rights and historically important material while working together, to provide an education avenue for archaeology students to have hands on experience, for collectors to have something to collect and for Cities and town to have museums that reflect the Maritime history associated with us all and you and me to have an interest and dreams to chase.

  3. #18
    pt
    Oct 2009
    Lisbon
    968
    313 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Magoopeter View Post
    This has a very negative effect on the archaeology community

    What is the negative effect?

    If UNESSCO, s policy wins through, every wreck will be left to rot on the seabed. How can they say a wreck is protected by the very nature of the oceans, mechanical attrition, decomposition of organic material and the process if galvanic corrosion wrecks will slowly dissolve into the seabed?
    They meant that it is protected from treasure hunting... All the other factors still apply.

  4. #19

    Jul 2014
    196
    243 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Don't worry, Trump will take care of it in his second term.

  5. #20
    pt
    Oct 2009
    Lisbon
    968
    313 times
    I heard he took the US out of the UNESCO...

  6. #21
    ie
    Mr

    Jan 2016
    Ireland
    underwater
    55
    90 times
    Shipwrecks
    Treasure hunting and archaeology used to be the same thing,
    I worked for three year on the Mary Rose project, which provided thousands of students an opportunity to learn hands on, it still does. Today it is part of the commercial life of Plymouth bringing thousands of visitors a year to Plymouth. They visit the Mary Rose Museum that employs people and spend money in local business around the town giving an added financial benefit to the town.
    If the Mary Rose had of been left in situ in 1979 , none of the above benefits to education or people would ever have been possible, that what your losing and its not about keeping treasure hunters of it, it about some one seeing an opportunity to give themselves a reason to exist. UNESSCO, s

  7. #22

    Jul 2014
    196
    243 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Exactly.

  8. #23
    Charter Member
    us
    Mar 2015
    Wisconsin, N.C. Fl....wherever the wrecks take me
    Tesoro Tigershark freshwater...Excaliber 1000 Bluetube
    543
    883 times
    Shipwrecks
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
    I heard he took the US out of the UNESCO...
    Yes..we did...Along with over 22% of UNESCO funding...

    Hows that workin out for you guys?

  9. #24
    pt
    Oct 2009
    Lisbon
    968
    313 times
    Quote Originally Posted by agflit View Post
    Yes..we did...Along with over 22% of UNESCO funding...

    Hows that workin out for you guys?

    We're doing just fine and are glad that that bunchload of money that you have now saved will be used in free dental care for all US citizens.
    Last edited by Alexandre; Feb 12, 2020 at 03:49 PM.

  10. #25
    pt
    Oct 2009
    Lisbon
    968
    313 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Magoopeter View Post
    If the Mary Rose had of been left in situ in 1979 , none of the above benefits to education or people would ever have been possible, that what your losing and its not about keeping treasure hunters of it, it about some one seeing an opportunity to give themselves a reason to exist. UNESSCO, s
    If the Mary Rose had been "worked" by treasure hunters, it would have been gone - no Museum, no ship, no catalogs, no nothing. Very much like the shipwrecks "worked" in Cape Verde by the ex-Mary Rose director, the former archaeologist-turned-treasure-hunter Margaret Rule: there is nothing left but a pile of rotten, dismantled, timbers. Not a single (promised) report or book.
    Honest Samuel likes this.

  11. #26

    Jul 2014
    196
    243 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    We're going to send all our old dentures to Europe, where they're needed.

  12. #27
    us
    May 2008
    Wisconsin
    Teknetics T2SE, GARRETT GTI 2500, Garrett Infinium
    3,484
    1259 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by ROBOTCOP13 View Post
    We're going to send all our old dentures to Europe, where they're needed.
    Dentures? Isn't dental care about teeth?
    PetesPockets55 likes this.
    "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." — Friedrich Nietzsche

    "You ask where I live. I cannot tell you. I am a Voyageur, a Chicot, sir. I live everywhere. My grandfather was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. My father was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. I will also die while en route, and another Chicot will take my place. Such is our course of life."

  13. #28
    ie
    Mr

    Jan 2016
    Ireland
    underwater
    55
    90 times
    Shipwrecks
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
    If the Mary Rose had been "worked" by treasure hunters, it would have been gone - no Museum, no ship, no catalogs, no nothing. Very much like the shipwrecks "worked" in Cape Verde by the ex-Mary Rose director, the former archaeologist-turned-treasure-hunter Margaret Rule: there is nothing left but a pile of rotten, dismantled, timbers. Not a single (promised) report or book.
    Be very careful, you’re a very small fish in a very big pound. I don’t think anyone is going to miss you or even note your contribution to archaeology when you gone. Accusations towards the late Margret rule are totally untrue and deeply offensive. If it was not for treasure hunters Maritime archaeology would never exist.
    Cape Verde | Arqueonautas Worldwide
    Dr. Margaret Rule Tribute

  14. #29
    us
    Sir

    Sep 2015
    Connecticut
    Minelab
    7,164
    3500 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason in Enid View Post
    But in the end its all completely useless because any value you salvage will be confiscated by A) the nation owning the water it sits in, B) the nation who owned the ship before it went down C) the insurance company who insured the vessel D) the heirs of every single person on board the ship. Pick above, or all.
    One would need many lawyers and a lot of money to pay them to make contracts with all the above. Good luck.

  15. #30
    pt
    Oct 2009
    Lisbon
    968
    313 times
    What accusations? That she worked for a treasure hunting company and helped ransack, for instance, a US Navy ship?

    She did all that. You want to see the documents?



    Quote Originally Posted by Magoopeter View Post
    Be very careful, you’re a very small fish in a very big pound. I don’t think anyone is going to miss you or even note your contribution to archaeology when you gone. Accusations towards the late Margret rule are totally untrue and deeply offensive. If it was not for treasure hunters Maritime archaeology would never exist.
    Cape Verde | Arqueonautas Worldwide
    Dr. Margaret Rule Tribute

 

 
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