Eyeballs Needed for Wreck Pic

[pcolaboy]

I shared this site pic with a friend today so I guess I need to share with the rest of TreasureNet

This vessel is laying on a downward slope with the aft end either broken off or buried in the mud. I have yet to dive on it but I have boated up to it. The only thing I could see at the surface was the small outcrops of vegetation growing on the bow area and my visibility was limited to just a few inches below the surface. If the scale on the map is to be believed, then this portion of the vessel is approximately 25' at its widest point and approximately 45' in length from the bow until the abrupt end to the outline.

This location is on one of the old and unused passes of one of our area rivers that is a tributary to Pensacola Bay. It is certainly a wooden wreck but has mostly been covered in silt until the recent hurricanes. Older USGS photos of the same area actually show a tidal flat high and dry in the same location in 1999. During Hurricane Ivan in 2003, this immediate area sustained a 15-18 ft surge with 10-15 ft waves on top of that which obviously displaced quite a bit of sediment. The attached photo was dated from the fall of 2006 - 1 year ago but the site has not changed much since I last visited it in September of this year.






Your opinions of the nature of the vessel are appreciated. By the way, this is not the same river as the one that the HMS Mentor was taken in 1781 that my other post discussed.

Pcola

 

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[tac512ltd]

I apologize for taking up space, when, indeed, I can't help with an ID; but, I did want to tell you that your research and work on these sites you're finding are commendable and I wish you the best of luck with them.

 

[pcolaboy]

I apologize for taking up space, when, indeed, I can't help with an ID; but, I did want to tell you that your research and work on these sites you're finding are commendable and I wish you the best of luck with them.

Thanks very much TAC ! Just wish I could make a living doing Marine Archaeology - (gasp!) did I just say that? Can't convince my wife in letting me take a 75% pay cut though!!

Pcola

 

[tac512ltd]

It would be interesting, but the negative 75% factor - wow that would sting!

 

[ivan salis]

well using the old sailing ships builder rough ratio of at least 2 to 1 and up to to 3 to 1 --lenght to width --the vessel should be at least 50 foot long and possibly up to 75 ft long if the width is 25 ft --- so you looking at a 50 to 75 ft long vessel - 25 feet wide ( think time frame ---when where 50 to 75 foot long -25 feet wide boats used? and for what purpose were they used ? ) -- if its a 50 footer than you're seeing most of it -- if its a 75 footer there maybe some of the stern section in the muck --- very interesting --- diving on it should yeild some artifacts that will greatly aid in "placing a date and nationality" on it hopefully --- good luck ----

there was a old spanish era (pre 1763) vessel lost up the river , long ago --- I think you know the one I'm talking about -----good luck ---Ivan

 

[pcolaboy]

well using the old sailing ships builder rough ratio of at least 2 to 1 and up to to 3 to 1 --lenght to width --the vessel should be at least 50 foot long and possibly up to 75 ft long if the width is 25 ft --- so you looking at a 50 to 75 ft long vessel - 25 feet wide ( think time frame ---when where 50 to 75 foot long -25 feet wide boats used? and for what purpose were they used ? ) -- if its a 50 footer than you're seeing most of it -- if its a 75 footer there maybe some of the stern section in the muck --- very interesting --- diving on it should yeild some artifacts that will greatly aid in "placing a date and nationality" on it hopefully --- good luck ----

there was a old spanish era (pre 1763) vessel lost up the river , long ago --- I think you know the one I'm talking about -----good luck ---Ivan

Hey Ivan,

I think the visible portions of the ship stops at midships indicating to me that there may be another 35-40' towards the stern that is either broken off or still buried that would indicate something in the neighborhood of 80-100' in length but of course this is just heresay. Also, this vessel is not in the same tributary as the lost spanish ship you and I have discussed. This particular river is much deeper and the approach much safer than some of our other tributaries.

There were two vessels intentionally sunk by the confederates when they evacuated Pensacola in this vicinity. One was side-wheel blockade runner and the other was an ironclad ram that was just short of completion - no details immediately available on their dimensions. These vessels were reportedly scuttled at night to conceal their location instead of being burned with the hopes that they may be refloated in the event that the winds of fortune changed for the Confederacy. I'm not sure what the truth really is but there's certainly something staring us in the face :-).

Pcola

 

[pcolaboy]

This image shows a wetlands restoration project underway to restore a portion of the lost wetlands, in the general vicinity of the wreck, from Hurricane Ivan.



Pcola

 

[ivan salis]

humm ---25 by 80 thats fairly close to 3 long to 1 wide --- long to wide builders ratio of a sailing vessel -- a very commonly used size --- if she was 100 by 25 that would be 4 long per 1 wide --- more like a side wheel steamers size ratio in my view -- but that just very very rough guess work --- Ivan

 

[MichaelB]

Pcola, do you know the name of the CSS ships sunk?

MichaelB

 

[pcolaboy]

Pcola, do you know the name of the CSS ships sunk?

MichaelB

Not exactly. I do know that the CSS Fulton (ex-USS Fulton captured in 1861) was a sidewheeler being converted into a blockade runner that was recorded as being destroyed by the retreating Confederates. One account has it being destroyed at the Navy Yard and another has it being sunk up on the Escambia River (our candidate site). The only information I have on the ironclad ram was that it was laid down in Milton and was towed to the Escambia River for fitting out with boilers when it was decided to sink her, one account says to block the river and the other says to hide it for possible refloat in the future. The two books that I got the information from are "Pensacola During the Civil War - A thorn in the side of the Confederacy" and the other is "Ashes and Shaddows". The Confederate Secretary of the Navy, Steven Mallory, was pretty pissed off when he heard that the ram was almost completed and General Braxton Bragg gave the order to destroy her anyway. Who knows....

USS Fulton

There's an actual photograph of her somewhere on the internet showing her on the stocks at the Pensacola Navy Yard in 1861 while being refitted but I can't seem to find the picture in the usual place.

Pcola

 

[MichaelB]

Here is what I had in my notes:

FULTON

SwStr:
t. 698;
l. 180';
b. 34'8";
dr. 10'6";
s. 10 k.;
cpl. 130;
a. 4 32-pdr.

FULTON was a side-wheeler built at Brooklyn Navy Yard in 1837 and rigged
as a fore-topsail schooner.

FULTON, formerly of the United States Navy, was captured by the
Confederates when they seized the Pensacola Navy Yard on 12 January
1861. She was selected for Confederate Navy service but never finished
refitting. The Confederates destroyed her while evacuating the yard
before Union reoccupation on 10 May 1862.

MichaelB

 

[Call me a Plumber]

Hey pcolaboy, I think what your seeing is a sidewheel steamer wreck and I think I can see something in the water on the starboard side which may be a peice of the wheel assembly. Have you tried to cut a hole in it and view it like that? Anyway nice find watch out for things with teeth in those southern delta's.

 

[pcolaboy]

Hey pcolaboy, I think what your seeing is a sidewheel steamer wreck and I think I can see something in the water on the starboard side which may be a peice of the wheel assembly. Have you tried to cut a hole in it and view it like that? Anyway nice find watch out for things with teeth in those southern delta's.

I'm not sure what you mean by cutting a hole in it. Do you mean cut a hole in the wreckage?

LOL...there are plenty of gators in this area for sure but the cool weather should keep them up on the marsh grass, at least during the day. Lots of good speckled trout, and redfish to be caught at this location as well :-).

Pcola