French Ship Gloire Treasure...

[jeff k]

Here's an interesting story I found in the NY Times 1881. Don't know if it's true or not.

 

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[jeff k]

I have a question about treasure being thrown overboard. Does anyone have any source material that shows the Spanish threw treasure overboard to keep it from the enemy, or to lighten the load during a storm? TIA

 

[FISHEYE]

I doupt the gold is still on land,someone could have dug it up an told no one.The treasure in the water is most likely still there.As far as spanish tossing treasure overboard.Anything is possible.Just put yourself in thier shoes in a storm in a little wood boat with ripped up sails getting ready to hit a reef or rocks.What would you throw overboard to make the ship lighter?

If i was a capt in that situation.Anything on the top deck that wasnt part of the ship or bolted to something would go overboard,like loose or torn canvas,deck guns,extra anchors,cannon balls,crates of personal belongings,kegs of food,water and rum an that worthless cabin boy along with any crew that didnt want to help.The guns below deck would be too much work to get off thier carts and to push out the gun ports.Besides getting crushed by one in the process.The treasure would not be tossed overboard since it was most likely buried/hidden under the ballast.

 

[Salvor6]

Jeff I can give you many examples of treasure being thrown overboard to prevent the enemy from getting it. Here are a few: In 1600 the Spanish caravel Buen Jesus saw Dutch warships approaching while trying to get in to the port of Valpariso, Chile. The Buen Jesus had no cannons so they threw over 125,000 pesos in gold & silver overboard. In 1628 Admiral Piet Heyn cornered the Nueva Espana Flota in Matanzas Bay and the Spaniards grounded their vessels in shallow water and threw the treasure overboard to prevent its capture. The Dutch got it anyway.

 

[jeff k]

Thanks, I found both examples in Marx's book, Shipwrecks In The Americas. Any more leads would be appreciated.

Year 1628. Another Dutch West India Fleet, commanded by Admiral Piet Heyn, cornered the Nueva Espana Flota, commanded by Captain-General Juan de Benevides y Bazan, near Havana and forced it into Matanzas Bay on September 8, where all twenty-four Spanish ships were wrecked on the shoals. Some of the treasure on the flota ships was thrown overboard before the Dutch fleet entered the bay and the Spaniards fled ashore without firing a shot to protect the treasure or their ships. The Dutch estimate the value of the treasure they took from the ships at 15 million Dutch guilders, and this amount was greater than all that bad been captured from Spanish shipping by privateers and pirates since the discovery of the New World. The treasure was so great that it could not be carried aboard the twenty-eight ships of Piet Heyn, so he refloated four of the largest Spanish ships and used them to carry some of the treasure back to Holland.

Shipwrecks In The Americas, by Robert Marx, Page 348.

Year 1600. Spanish caravel Buen Jesus, 60 tons, Captain Francisco de Ibarra, was approaching the port of Valparaiso when it sighted Dutch warships commanded by Admiral Oliver von Noort. Because the caravel carried no cannon and the Dutch were certain to capture it, the captain ordered her cargo (which consisted of over 125,000 pesos in gold and silver bullion and specie) thrown overboard.

Shipwrecks In The Americas, by Robert Marx, Page 438.

 

[jeff k]

Another treasure story bites the dust. I just found the following account.

"Soon after this event they approached Delaware Bay, where they captured an English corvette. Being ignorant of the channel, however, they were necessarily delayed, and they were placed in a most critical position by the appearance of an English fleet, whose superior force seemed to leave them no chance of escape. This they effected, nevertheless, with the greatest difficulty, carrying with them the gold which they had been obliged to throw into the river when pursued by the English, but which they afterward fished up and secured. They then proceeded on the way to Philadelphia."

 

[Cablava]

Jeff

Where did you find the last account of this interesting story ?

Mike Collins

 

[jeff k]

Mike... Here's the link, and two others that confirm the recovery.

http://books.google.com/books?id=oi...g=rPfqa837LXcYs0j9FlFkTsqahTQ&hl=en#PPA639,M1

http://books.google.com/books?id=Wu...ig=4hvkI2_CxWdKMTb6MXxvQzMdcK4&hl=en#PPA35,M1

http://books.google.com/books?id=wX...zykhpsR&sig=RRAVIOIHilCi_UoYtkJb8XiJjGQ&hl=en

 

[Cablava]

Thanks

Mike

 

[enrada]

Old thread but here is what I found while doing my research into Manila Galleons.

In 1578(year?) when Francis Drake came up the west coast of South America and pillaged and plundered everything it forced the Spanish to put out a decree to all their Captains which read;

Burn the ship, sink the ship or throw all the treasure overboard to keep other countries, pirates or privateers from knowing how much gold Spain was taking out of South America.

In real terms Spain didn't have enough ships to haul it all away so dumping a load overboard was not a big issue. Captains that allowed the treasure to fall into enemy hands were hung or killed which history showed happened. Sometimes researchers suggest that a cannon ball hit the powder magazine and the ship blew up. Sometimes I question that idea and I think the San Jose 1708 might have been one where the Captain deliberately lit the powder magazine and blew up the ship because they had no chance of dumping all the treasure overboard.

 

[Honest Samuel]

That story in # 1 is hard for me to read.

 

[aquanut]

That story in # 1 is hard for me to read.

Click on it and it magically grows in size and maybe use something besides your phone...