Nuestra Señora de Atocha Coordinates?***Sterncastle Update***

[Salvor6]

Re: Nuestra Señora de Atocha Coordinates?

Red, I worked on the Atocha site many years ago. They are looking for the sterncastle that broke off and drifted away. So far they have gone out 10 miles in a northwest direction finding artifacts (and gold) all along the way. Somewhere further out is where the stern came to rest. Go find it!

 

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[Red_desert]

Re: Nuestra Señora de Atocha Coordinates?

Red, I worked on the Atocha site many years ago. They are looking for the sterncastle that broke off and drifted away. So far they have gone out 10 miles in a northwest direction finding artifacts (and gold) all along the way. Somewhere further out is where the stern came to rest. Go find it!

Thanks...I just ran a little test. Made a few marks on the East side, not a complete marking out, just was getting started. The one farthest away is about the same as the scale at the bottom...a little over 4 miles. It will take some time to go over the area...decide how far, then break it up into smaller sections...no doubt will be fun though.

 

[Red_desert]

Re: Nuestra Señora de Atocha Coordinates?

X meaning what? Dell

X meaning not too much yet...normally an X stands for treasure or whatever you feel might be there. I'm not finished, but for some reason it seems like too many Xs in an area between due West and NW. There is like a trail of them going slightly SW then curves a little around toward up to the West. I have a question, are there any pearl beds in the area of the map? Pearls can be a type of treasure...I don't think there could be so many though.

If my marks are all treasure in that area between just above due West and NW, then about 7 1/2-7 3/4 miles from the Atocha coordinates is a real hot spot. There are some good spots just due West also, but not like where I mentioned. Then I have a trail of them going a ways East of the coordinates. A curve above the chords going NW in direction. It is beginning to look like a mess. I'm still using the map above. If the sterncastle is beyond that area, I need to make a map reaching farther West. It is hard to find something when your map stops short of where it is located.

At the end of the Xs should be the sterncastle...at least the NW trails...hope they find it.

 

[Red_desert]

Re: Nuestra Señora de Atocha Coordinates?

Thanks Red, It's been a long long time since I was at the Atocha site, but if I remember correctly, I had mentally plotted the scatter trail of the Stern castle for about 3/4 mile back on the sand bank where it made a loop to the east, then back to the south where the trail ended. A lot of gold deep under the sands but extremely difficult, and expensive to recover.

I wish you success. Dell

Wow Dell, that is interesting...I used a calculator today and the scale at the bottom to convert the distance into miles. What I have is almost 6 miles to the hot spot I'd mentioned. If you follow the line from the stick pin for the Atocha, to the West from there...go up from the line to almost the next. This is slightly under 6 miles to the West. I kept making Xs smaller and smaller, until it is just solid. Around this spot is a patch of Xs, when I say patch...thinking of how nuggets in the desert sometimes are found in patches (what it reminds me of). Then straight below the line from the coordinates, West again, is a stretch like a patch but Xs aren't quite so close together. Now between North and NW is another similar patch area, about slightly more than 5 miles. It has the 2 types of patches as just mentioned in the West/NW. One more patch area is straight NW but actually ends slightly below the top left corner of the map. The last 2 Xs are on top of the last horizontal line and 10 3/4 miles away, near the edge of map. Only at the NW corner can you get any Xs 10+ miles away. I think this map is getting finished now. Next I will need to extend the area West, printing out another map for that...probably put some place marks first in GE for where the patches are...drag the map West then. If I can pick up a trail from any of the patches leading into the extended map, might be the location for the sterncastle. Hope so, otherwise I would have to go with the solid spot in the patch almost 6 miles W/NW. I'll post the maps soon as finished.

I've been coming up with a explanation now for these locations. We don't have hurricanes here, but our storms often have small amounts of rotation at times. When a circular area of rotation passes through...wind may come from one direction, then keep shifting until is blowing from the other direction. On a much larger scale, maybe the hurricane changed wind direction at times. The sterncastle may have been moved in a Northeast direction and then West a little...finally pushed into the NW. There is a few trails need to account for, but stuff might be really scattered around...even some more if other storms came through at a later date.

******UPDATE*******
As scubasalvor has said in a post above…
“I worked on the Atocha site many years ago. They are looking for the sterncastle that broke off and drifted away. So far they have gone out 10 miles in a northwest direction finding artifacts (and gold) all along the way. Somewhere further out is where the stern came to rest. Go find it!“
I have found something that according to the map scale, is just about slightly over 12 miles NW of the coordinates, at 24°37'21.04"N 82°29'27.47"W. The red S place mark in the center is the spot. The ship icon is the 1st place marked, the arrow the 2nd, before zooming in more each time dowsing closer. Can’t see much, seems to be a little deeper here, is darker which off the edge of sandbar some.

Compare this topo of the same area. I used the scale on the map to get the approximate location. It should be about the top of sect 376 or in 340. To the N, NW, W of sect 340 it drops off into deeper water. The topos are from Search TerraServer.
http://terraserver-usa.com/address.aspx

Here is the map zoomed out, a 24 mile wide topo view.

The NW corner from the Atocha coordinates in GE.

And zoomed into the possible sterncastle area.

The NW corner dowsed…I tried to determine what is in the drift trails here, it must be mixed and mostly silver. Where marked Emerald or gold…probably found with a lot of silver. I labeled them all one thing, each spot, but most likely just a few good things here and there. I’ve got some labeled relic…don’t know for sure what these are, but something other than the usual gold, silver, Emerald stuff.

The NW corner of the original extended map.

 

[Red_desert]

Re: Nuestra Señora de Atocha Coordinates?

I've taken another look Dell...the trail South is slightly curving so that goes to the SW. Then between from where (at coordinates) it went East a whole lot and the southern curve, I found 2 places where the trail goes East some. Actually it trails slightly SE. The curve I'd mentioned before above the coordinates going up into the SW, I'm finding places along the way the trail goes East just a small bit also. Interesting, seems as if the southern and northern curves may connect at the point trails East, that is a longer trail East of the coordinates. After the first couple times going over the map, I thought there was something which might be the sterncastle...in the southern curve about 3 grid spaces over West from Atocha coordinates, down at the bottom of map 1 grid space up, put an arrow pointing to that X. It may be something important, will get back to checking out the extended maps East and South next.

******Updated******
I have the maps all finished to be able to post them now. I just wanted to clarify something first….when I asked about the Atocha coordinates, in one of my posts above said…

“Besides, there is something NE of the Atocha, not sure if it is another ship or a part of one...just wanted to make sure I had the right place. Only wanted something for practice, not really planning on posting anything for it.”

What map I used here wasn’t Google Earth, it was right out of United States Treasure Atlas. The reason for wanting the coordinates, the arrow from the number in the treasure atlas didn’t agree when dowsing on it. I got something NE of the arrow which is probably the true location for the Atocha. If you notice on the map here, seems too far SW when comparing in GE. If you’ll notice, the ruler in the photo, follow it ½ inch NE from #815.

According to US Treasure Atlas the Atocha was found 40 miles from Key West and 10 miles West of Marquesas Key. Looking at the GE map, it seems US Treasure Atlas placed it too much South of Dry Tortugas area.

The Atocha carried 47 tons of silver and 17 tons of gold. US Treasure Atlas also mentions that the gold was looted from Indians in Central and South America. The silver and gold got scattered over a very wide area of a sandbar.

 

[Red_desert]

\
I see a Marquesas Rock in the SE part of the map. I wonder if this is the reef that the ship wrecked on or is it somewhere else? The topo shows a curve to the SW where deep waters and reefs meet.

Atocha coordinates should be about in the SW corner of sect 432. Here is the zoomed in map. I don’t see any 55 feet water areas, just is rather shallow.

All the safe deep water is to the SW of Marquesas Rock.

Sect 478 is where I found a drift trail East of Atocha chords, just above Marquesas Rock. Also found a SE trail in about the where sect 565/566 meet, SW of Marquesas Rock.

The place where the Atocha hull had sunk, according to the info from the references below, was in the deep water of a 55 foot depth. It seems the public records place the coordinates in the center of the sand bar.

The Mel Fisher site mentions Columbian emeralds, silver and gold artifacts recovered from the Atocha.

http://www.melfisher.com/default.asp

A wave lifted the Atocha from being anchored and brought it down on the reef breaking a hole in the hull.

“With crew and passengers huddled, praying below deck, the Atocha approached the line of reefs dividing safe, deep water from certain death. The frenzied crew dropped anchors into the reef face, hoping to hold the groaning, creaking galleon off the jagged coral. A wave lifted the ship, and, in the next instant, flung it down directly onto the reef. The main mast snapped as the huge seas washed Atocha off the reef and beyond, trailing her broken mast. Water poured through a gaping hole in the bow, quickly filling the hull with water. The great ship slipped beneath the surface, finding bottom 55 feet below; only the stump of the mizzenmast broke the waves.“

The Atocha story is told on this page.
http://www.melfisher.com/Library/AtochaMargStory.asp


According to Wikipedia a second hurricane hit in October of the same year which made salvaging the Atocha very difficult. The missing stern castle would hold most of the gold and rare Muzo emeralds.

“The Atocha had sunk in approximately 55 feet of water, making it difficult for divers to retrieve any of the cargo or guns from the ship. A second hurricane in October of that year made attempts at salvage even more difficult by scattering the wreckage of the ship still further.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuestra_Señora_de_Atocha

I first tried using Xs to find the drift trails. As you can see it looked like a mess. Here is the NW corner. The drift trails are obvious, but stuff seems to be too scattered.

So, I had to do something different. After one X in a location would try to dowse the edges of a trail, working out from that spot. It makes more sense and worked better. The trails were filled in with white grease pencil to make them more visible. I’ve added the extended maps also. A couple places the trails went over the edge.

You can see the original map mess with Xs, follows the second dowsing quite closely, even has similar void areas. When I first started the Xs were much to large, making it too hard to find the drift trails.

 

[crzhors]

Red Desert, I suggest you get on down to Key West and chat with Sean and Kim Fisher.Mel was always in favor of letting others try their luck with whatever 'method' they had to find the treasure.They will show you a sample of the huge collection of charts and records kept in the ongoing search. They have 2 full time boats on the site of the Atocha.Every possible day,when I worked there the Magruder was spending 100-150 days a year at the site! The dowsing at your computer is all well and good,but don't forget the old WW2 bombing range and the rest of the marvelous stuff left behind. Be sure to ask about the "Emerald Detector" that Mel developed. Good luck with your search! CRZHORS

 

[Darren in NC]

Uh-oh...the black Suburbans are on their way with that picture...

 

[Red_desert]

Yeah crzhors, it is all very interesting...I've been to the Fisher site at times and looked at the boats working out there. Emerald detector, I didn't realize they had one. I know my Fisher Gold Bug-2 can detect some larger chunks of magnesium-iron aluminum silicate minerals if the ground balance is adjusted for rock testing with the small sniper elliptical coil.

I forgot about the WW II stuff, I've read where there is some of that around Key West. You know, in the pro dowsing board, my first attempt at ship dowsing is one of the threads about the Philipines. Here is the post link.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,149341.0.html

The bay is a WW II place and supposed to have a lot of gold in it. According to the diver, after submitting the first map to him, said that I located the site he had been diving on. So, I tried just a plain Google highway map, showed the bay with the edges to see and the light color made marking it easier.

The diver turned out to be from another country and has a job which takes him away to other countries sometimes for a while. The next step was to dowse charts, large ones that had to be made into sections for scanning...I think these might be something like the ones you mentioned Mel Fisher had...SBMA (Subic Bay Metro Authority) controls part of the bay. Com1diver told me there are many wrecks in the bay, I marked wreck sites that were within SBMA boundries also. Com1diver had been diving on this one wreck site I mentioned and marked, looking for 1,000 tons of gold. But the dive team became convinced the United States had removed the gold in the late 1940's since the bottom of the ship was peeled back like an orange.

I think Com1diver is probably right about that and in the other GE map there might be some of it cached...or some other gold, but if it is part of the load from the ship...only a portion is still there cached on land. I won't know for sure about the ship, until I have the charts and have the location for the site. I marked a lot of stuff in the bay. The Atocha dowsing project is what I was doing until Com1diver could return from his other work. And I might add, for practice making sure this is working for me. The GE system is something I'd thought of besides the charts...hoping it would provide some coordinates as well.

 

[JEFFRA]

This is true-Fishers won the wreck site. they also own the 1700s site up toward st augustine - try going diving with a metal detector and you will get arrested. You are free to all the treasure that washes up on the beach

 

[JEFFRA]

not sure I would play with that- I understand they can still blow up.

 

[JEFFRA]

NE of the Atocha is the Santa Margareta wreck site. Found by the Fishers as well. She was the lead ship and the Nuestra Senora De Atocha was the trail ship in the convoy of 28 ships heading back to Spain on 6 Sept 1622 when they both sank along with 5 or 6 others. that floundered and may have been recovered. Not sure.

 

[sabre15]

I agree that the sites found are the Fishers, but not the trail between, the ocean moves things around and who's right is it to own square miles of an area in the ocean, sure you found the wreck and you get that. Nobody should dive that site without owners consent, but to tell me I cannot dive the areas surrounding it are just un-American and that makes the Fisher family or any treasure hunter that says that just as corrupt as the government. Leases are a joke, the ocean is not owned. You find a wreck, you own it, if the sterncastle is found somewhere else and found by someone else, its whoever finds it! Just my opinion.

 

[Red_desert]

A more than just couple really good finds were made on the Santa Margareta wreck site in recent years.