HUMAN REMAINS ON A SHIPWRECK

[Salvor6]

I remenber reading about the Texas Historical Comission and their excavation of the French ship Belle. During the excavation they found a complete skeleton of one of the crew. Did they halt all activity out of respect of this gravesite? Of course not! They exhumed his remains and they are now in a box in the basement of the Institute of Nautical Archaeology and the poor souls skull is probably a paperweight on the desk of the chief archie. Read about it here: http://www.thc.stste.tx.us/belle/.

I am outraged over this double standard. When state archaeologist Sonny Cockrell found human remains in Warm Mineral Springs he brought them right up.

 

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[pcolaboy]

Yeah it's a total crock. When U.W.F. did excavation of the first permanent Pensacola settlement, Presidio Santa Maria de Galve, they found one grave by accident and decided to excavate several nearby blocks to determine if it was in fact a cemetary - it was. At least one complete skeleton was removed and is "in storage". This was headed by none other than, Dr. Judy Bense. Granted, this was on land but I don't really see how that matters - a cemetery is where people are meant to rest in peace forever right?

It's a huge contradiction that is lacking in any sort of rational justification.

Pcola

 

[FISHEYE]

What the state of florida is doing is called"skullduggery"Universities profit from teaching thier students about bones recovered from shipwrecks and grave sites.


What is the origin of “skullduggery”? Is it related to grave robbing as in the 1800s for medical use of cadavers? Or is it much older? — Lyn Kin.

Ah, yes, body-snatching. The practice was so widespread in the 18th century that a device called the “mortsafe” was developed, a sort of iron cage that surrounded the coffin and prevented abduction of the occupant. Body-snatchers, who sold their product to medical schools, were known as “resurrectionists,” and some, such as the infamous team of William Burke and William Hare, were not above employing murder when the natural supply ran low.

skul08.pngThose readers who made it past that cheery paragraph may have noticed that I let the spelling “skullduggery” (to which my spell-checker objects) stand in the question, because the combination of “skull” and “duggery” (which sounds like an archaic form of “digging”) certainly puts one in mind of grave-robbing. But the original and more common spelling is “skulduggery,” with just one “l,” and the term actually has no connection to either skulls or digging.

“Skulduggery” today means “underhanded dealings,” “trickery” or “clandestine machinations.” The term is apparently an American invention, first appearing in print (as far as we know) in 1867 (”From Minnesota had been imported the mysterious term ’scull-duggery’, used to signify political or other trickery.”), but since that quotation is an explanation of the term, we can assume it had been in use for some time before that. Today “sculduggery” is most often associated with cloak-and-dagger intelligence agencies such as the CIA, but freelancers and domestic political operatives have made their own splashes on occasion with “skulduggery” (”Watergate was such a sensational piece of skulduggery,” The Times (London), 1980).

While “skulduggery” may be a US coinage, its roots appear to lie in Scotland. The 18th century Scots term “sculduddery” meant “indecency” or “breach of chastity,” defined at the time as meaning specifically “fornication or adultery.” While “sculduddery” may at one time have been a serious legal term in Scotland, most written instances of the term treat it as jocular slang.

In any case, just how “skulduddery” in Scotland became “skulduggery” in the US is a mystery, although the terms do share obvious overtones of secrecy and impropriety. We also have no idea of what the roots of “sculduddery” might be. On the bright side, however, we do have “skulduggery,” a great word for those times when something underhanded is afoot.

 

[mad4wrecks]

There were a number of human remains and artifacts found on land at the Corrigans shipwreck site, just to the north of Turtle Trail. This was when they were developing a large condominium project about 7 (?) years ago.

The Florida BAR was notified but nothing was done. Construction was not halted. Nothing was investigated.

(Developer) money talks!

 

[jeff k]

If a permit is denied because of human remains, then I think a lawsuit should follow. They simply cannot allow archaeologists to dig up as many bones as they want, and then use the grave site excuse for the treasure hunters. It simply doesn't hold water (pun intended).

 

[Galleon Hunter]

That's nothing, at least he ended up being a paper weight. I was on a dig in Ohio where a very prominient PhD professor was caught on tape using the skull they dug up at a Paleo-Indian site as a soccer ball during a lunch break. I think that poor soul ended up in the dumpster.

Rob

 

[Zephyr]

Kind of makes you wonder why foreign gov't's aren't protesting about the remains of their (long deceased) citizens being dug up and treated like doorstops and knick-knacks by academics. Guess after being buried for a 100+ years your remains are considered fair game for "historical purposes"....

 

[mad4wrecks]

In a related story (human remains and state archaeologists)

a direct quote: And because the original Vero Man bones have been lost, he said — with reports placing them at FSU, the University of Florida and the Smithsonian Institution — scientists need new bones for radiocarbon dating that wasn't available in 1915.


more at: http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/jul/11/digging-up-history/

 

[FISHEYE]

I may have the only remaining bone from the "vero man" i found a fossilized prehistoric human index finger bone at vero beach near the dunes after hurricane jeanne.Since FSU lost thier bones.My finger bone is now for sale.Now taking offers.

Any anthropologists here?

As you see in the pics.the fossil finger bone is much larger than the one on my left hand.heres why.


The Neanderthal hand looked similar to a human hand, but it was much stronger. They had larger muscles and broader fingertips.

Neanderthals held tools between their fingers, something that required enormous strength. "The effect is like using a coin rather than a screwdriver to fasten a screw,

 

[inletsurf]

I have a piece of fossilized mammalian rib bone I collected from 30 feet below existing ground surface on the top of the limestone layer near Ocala, if anyone wants to look at it and tell me what it was from?

 

[FISHEYE]

Inletsurf,

Ahh but your mammal bone didnt come from vero beach where FSU lost or misplaced thier "vero man" fossil bones.My fossil finger bone could possibly be worth millions since vero beach can spend $800,000 for a core sample of dirt.I need to find a used core sample machine,im in the wrong biz.

 

[Crazy Greek]

I hate to bust your bubble here guys, but the sailor found on LaSalle's ship in Matagorda Bay was given an honorable burial here in Texas and now lies at rest in the Texas State Cemetery in Austin, having the distinction of being the oldest remains ever buried in the State Cemetery.

I live in Victoria where most of the artifacts found on Belle can be seen. We had the one of the cannons placed in the lobby of a bank where I was working security for quite a while and the building which housed the artifacts was right across the street.

The thing that pisses me off about the State of Texas is their laws concerning metal detecting. In most places, it's a strict No No, unless of course you happen to be a member of the Texas State Historical Commission.

If it had not been for a ranch foreman using his metal detector on the ranch where he worked, the location of LaSalle's fort and the finding of the cannons that were buried there would have never been possible.

You can read about the burial of the sailor here.......

http://www.texasescapes.com/AllThingsHistorical/Sailors-Burial-404BB.htm

http://www.cemetery.state.tx.us/pub/user_form.asp?step=1&pers_id=10170

http://www.thc.state.tx.us/lasalle/lasburial.shtml

Hope this clears it up a little for ya.

 

[FISHEYE]

Bones in the excess of 30,000 years old should be fossilized.