Highway 49 slucing

[tweeta_bear]

With all do respect isn't it the duty of the claim owner to clearly mark and defend his claim if need be.Also shouldn't the claim be active.I ask because I hear that a lot people have claims so they can have a nice camping spot 2 weeks out of the year.Keep in mind that I am new to prospecting and trying to learn.

here is some info for ya
Mining claims are staked in a square or rectangular shape with boundaries running north, south, east and west astronomically. Your compass will need to be set using the magnetic declination shown on topographic maps. After a claim post is erected, a clearly marked trail (claim line) is established, leading to where you intend to erect the next corner or line post. A proper claim line is one that is easy to spot and to follow. The usual method for marking claim boundaries is with an axe to cut blazes into trees and to cut underbrush. There is an exception to this rule in areas designated by the Minister (see Staking in Designated Areas on page 8). Blazes are cut into two sides of a tree and face the direction of the line. If trees are not available, you must erect pickets (cut from
smaller trees) or pile loose rock rubble into cairns. Failure to mark out your claim properly can lead to problems such as:
• Boundary conflicts when someone over stakes your claim;
• Disputes that could lead to the loss of your claim and investment; or
• Increased legal survey costs if you take your claim to lease.
Coloured flagging tape is NOT a substitute for blazing. Flagging tape is not durable and tends to disintegrate and break down within a year or two. Your local Mining Lands Consultant or Provincial Mining Recorder can advise you when it is appropriate to use flagging tape.

 

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[Clay Diggins]

With all do respect isn't it the duty of the claim owner to clearly mark and defend his claim if need be.Also shouldn't the claim be active.I ask because I hear that a lot people have claims so they can have a nice camping spot 2 weeks out of the year.Keep in mind that I am new to prospecting and trying to learn.

Good question. Most people believe that if they don't see any signs or stakes it's the claim owner's fault if you mine their claim. It's a convenient theory but in all but a few States there is no requirement at all to maintain signs or stakes after the claim is located.

In California a placer claim that's located by legal subdivision (aliquot part) doesn't need to be marked ever. No stakes, no monument no notice ever.

There are a few States that require stakes and monuments be restored once a year but in most states - including California there is no requirement at all to keep markers or stakes maintained even on claims made by metes and bounds.

Claim owners have the option to defend their claims by having mineral trespassers arrested, it is a crime in every state to take valuable minerals from a federal mining claim. The crime is theft.

For those who might find what I write here to be doubtful here is the California law regarding Placer claims located by legal subdivision.

CALIFORNIA PUBLIC RESOURCES CODE
SECTION 3900-3924

3902 (b)
Where the United States survey has been extended over the land
embraced in the location, the claim may be taken by legal
subdivisions and no other reference than those of the survey shall be
required, and the boundaries of a claim so located and described
need not be staked or monumented. The description by legal
subdivisions shall be deemed the equivalent of marking.

 

[Lucky Baldwin]

Hi ive just been reading here until now. i had to chime in on this subject.

calaveras county is a BAD place to wander in and try prospecting. every gully has (or had) gold in it so most of the county below 3000 feet was patented years ago and is now private property. (the county is generally barren of gold above 3000 except for a few exceptions) i have a piece of land up there with a tertiary tributary under it. because it's fairly remote, every year there are a dozen people that come onto my land and start prospecting my private property. when i confront them every f**ng time their excuse is "i didnt know" like that is some kind of free pass to steal. there is a BIG "private property keep out" sign at the head of the canyon on the road leading into my property and still they use that lame ass excuse.

i used to be civil and inform them is private property and ask them to leave until the time i had a gun pulled on me. ON MY OWN PROPERTY. luckily my neighbor across the canyon saw what was going on and fired off a dozen rounds from his ak47 and they thought better of it. i now carry a pocket taurus and won't be threatened like that on my own property again. is it fair that i have to live like this because of "recreational" prospectors that don't give a damn about property rights? and people wonder why the gov't is trying to kill this hobby....

im sorry money is tight for u, but joining a club is your best bet. you'll meet people who know people and that's your best way to find some good diggings. just wandering onto the wrong property in calaveras and starting to dig could prove fatal. weed growers are generally cool, but there is a lot of meth cooked in those hills and YOU DON'T want to stumble onto those operations!

a word to the wise...

 

[Clay Diggins]

here is some info for ya
Mining claims are staked in a square or rectangular shape with boundaries running north, south, east and west astronomically. Your compass will need to be set using the magnetic declination shown on topographic maps. After a claim post is erected, a clearly marked trail (claim line) is established, leading to where you intend ...

That's from the mining laws for Ontario, Canada tweeta_bear. Canadian state laws don't apply in the United States. There is some good advice in there about maintaining claim boundaries that claim owners might consider using but it's not law in the United States.

 

[tweeta_bear]

i went to the BLM land office here in colorado back in august to find out if any claims had been staked on sections where my boy and i were going to go prospect, thats basically what they told me except that they had to be 4' high and that i couldnt stop anybody from using the land for camping or horseback riding and such. they said i would only own the right to the minerals in that section. im still pretty new to all of this also but i thought i would give what info i have learned. i also know that the mining and prospecting laws very from state to state.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The BLM is not in charge of how claims are marked. They are under no obligation to give you accurate information about claims or mining laws. The BLM would be my last choice when looking for information about mining claims. In my experience you would get the same quality of information if you asked your questions at the service counter at Walmart.

Here is the Colorado law about marking mining claim locations. Notice that there is no requirement that the stakes be maintained after the location is made.

C.R.S. 34-43-107 (2013)
34-43-107. Marking boundaries



Such surface boundaries shall be marked by six substantial posts hewed or marked on the sides which are in toward the claim, and sunk in the ground, one at each corner and one at the center of each side line. Where it is practically impossible on account of bedrock to sink such posts, they may be placed in a pile of stones, and where in marking the surface boundaries of a claim any one or more of such posts fall by right upon precipitous ground where the proper placing of it is impractical or dangerous to life or limb, it shall be legal and valid to place any such post at the nearest practicable point, suitably marked, to designate the proper place.

 

[mxer47]

I guess it could be said that if it isn't marked its fair game. It seems a little like if you see a car that is unlocked with the keys in it and bird poop on it it is fair game. I know it isn't. Some would say the owner of the car deserves to have it stolen. I know this if it isn't used it will become useless to anyone. Now a placer claim will eventually lose the value on it and be replenished and no one knows when the next major flood will happen. It seems to me if every placer claim was properly marked the so called environmentalists would throw a fit. I'm not advocating for not marking I'm just saying. So I have an idea that doesn't involve changing the law or involving the govt in any way. Claim owners could have a co-op data base where you provide GPS location of markers and proof of verified filing with the county, and if any terms of use IE: panning only sluicing and panning, no use, use with %, etc. this information could be put on a web page with map overlays that are scrubbed of all personal info. If a claim owner allows use with permission only that can be discussed thru a pm where he is free to divulge any information or details. Non public use claims could be clearly marked on the map. Claims for sale could also be posted and a % of their sale could go to the co-op to help fund the research in verifying the claim. I think the most important part would be accuracy of sole ownership without leans or over claiming and location.
This could be useful from both the public perspective as well as the owners perspective. I will tell you I homeschool my kids and am thinking of teaching a class on gold prospecting at our homeschool co-op next year. A sight like this would be helpful to find a claim owner who would allow a field trip to his placer claim that is close by and maybe even help by bringing the equipment he uses in addition with my own. Taking some time to explain the process of claiming etc.
This could be a PR tool to help stem the tide of negative public opinion. If you just want to keep people off it would be a way to communicate that as well.

 

[goldenIrishman]

"Public use claim"? Isn't that an oxymoron? What is the sense in staking a claim if you're going to let the public in there at will? That sounds like "Military Intelligence" "Jumbo Shrimp" etc etc etc.

 

[Sample Pan Dan]

"Public use claim"? Isn't that an oxymoron? What is the sense in staking a claim if you're going to let the public in there at will? That sounds like "Military Intelligence" "Jumbo Shrimp" etc etc etc.

Lol

 

[Clay Diggins]

"Public use claim"? Isn't that an oxymoron? What is the sense in staking a claim if you're going to let the public in there at will? That sounds like "Military Intelligence" "Jumbo Shrimp" etc etc etc.

Nice one GI!

We already have public use areas. They are a much bigger area that the existing mining claims. They are better known as unclaimed public lands.

Do your research and you will find that good unclaimed gold ground is available in quantity. Why so many new prospectors think "it's all claimed up" is beyond me. A few hours of research will quickly show it just ain't so.

If you want other people to share their claims join a club. There are some good ones and you will learn a lot about prospecting the local area.

If that's too expensive do the research yourself. It doesn't cost anything but your time and enough gas money to get to the County Recorder and a pencil and paper. Find those unclaimed areas and go prospect them. It's what real miners do.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Clay, Could you explain the difference between "Unclaimed public lands" and "No Mineral Entry" areas? Could the unclaimed public lands actually be claimed if one was so inclined? Or does it have something to do with the area these different types of land are located in? I have the feeling that public parks can't be claimed as we know it. I know that the area of our favorite hunting grounds near Greaterville is a No Mineral Entry area due to the stipulations of the 1989 land swap (unless I've been taking you wrong on that) but what other reason could cause an area to be designated as NME?

 

[mytimetoshine]

If your property is not OBVIOUSLY and CLEARLY marked you have no right to *****. Everyone wants and has the right to enjoy the great outdoors. If you have one little tiny keep out sign that can easily be missed...thats just dumb. Then you want to pull a gun on someone for spending the day with a gold pan?...ridiculous. One should not have to spend hours and hours researching and worrying that some area might be claimed up... If you have something of value take care of it and make it obvious that its yours. Some people are just trying to have a nice day doing something they enjoy. Bottom line is it should be OBVIOUS your on private land. If its not keep your trap shut and go buy some razor wire and 5 million no trespassing signs. If the land was so important and useful to you, you be there in the first place. Its OK to own some remote land if thats what floats your boat but you cant expect people to say to themselves well crap i want to hiking,fishing,goldpanning or whatever....but golly this might be some body land.....eff that. You cant pull a gun on someone scaring the crap out of them because they are ignorant of YOUR rules....now if there trying to climb in your bedroom window..by all means shoot them but this "I own the outdoors crap is a joke."

Cut people some slack. Dont you have anything better to do? Just sitting around all day waiting to pull a gun on somebody walking across your dirt...lame....If the land is full of gold then why dont you just mine it all out yourself if its so good?

 

[Goldwasher]

Wow......your Avatar should totally be revoked??...Pacer county??...slowdownmanyouaregoingtohurtyourself....#clueless

 

[mytimetoshine]

Wow......your Avatar should totally be revoked??...Pacer county??...slowdownmanyouaregoingtohurtyourself....#clueless

What im trying to say is the use of guns or physical threats as a first time approach to defending someones property/claim is ridiculous. Now if you have caught the same person twice on your land after you have warned them by all means call the cops and have them arrested for trespassing. But to run up to some one flipping out on them because you think they should some how KNOW all the rules in the world you live is an ignorant move.
I dont see how this CANT be avoided?? So you own some land and you dont want anyone panning, prospecting or whatever, just walking across it. So you keep noticing that people are always wandering onto,or purposely trespassing on your land....ok If this were me I would think to my self well hmmm? Since im having this problem so frequently maybe there is something wrong with the way I identify my property. No Big deal, thats my bad i need to make it more clear this is private property and then problem solved. Or you have a repeat offender. Then yes take whatever steps you deem necessary, what ever those are. But coming unglued on someone that has no idea what is going on just because you have been dealing with "people trespassing on your land" and you're fed up is pretty weak..Ive heard enough stories of people out for a day of fun and meant no harm to anyone (even with small children in tow) get confronted in a very threatening manor and its just lame.....the only reason physical harm should be threaten or even intimidation used is if there is some kind of physical threat or intimidation used on you or your family. Other wise your just an a-hole.

#whyareyoutypingtwitterhashtagsonTnet

 

[Clay Diggins]

Don't worry about mytimetoshine. He's still wondering who took his sprinkler and his dog. Wait until he notices his sandwich and beer are missing from his back porch!

Ya should have put up some big azz signs and some razor wire around your house mytime. Thanks for the car antenna dude I like beating your dog with it. I dug up your yard looking for gold - you don't have any now, I got it all. You should have mined it while you had the chance.

None of this is my fault, you have only yourself to blame. People have to be constantly warned not to steal other peoples stuff and you just didn't do a good enough job warning me.

 

[Capricorn]

... But to run up to some one flipping out on them because you think they should some how KNOW all the rules in the world you live is an ignorant move.

The guy said he was typically really nice to people, until one of THEM pulled a gun on HIM. After that he felt it might be wise to carry a gun himself. I don't blame him. I get the sense you might not have read his post that carefully..

 

[Clay Diggins]

Clay, Could you explain the difference between "Unclaimed public lands" and "No Mineral Entry" areas? Could the unclaimed public lands actually be claimed if one was so inclined? Or does it have something to do with the area these different types of land are located in? I have the feeling that public parks can't be claimed as we know it. I know that the area of our favorite hunting grounds near Greaterville is a No Mineral Entry area due to the stipulations of the 1989 land swap (unless I've been taking you wrong on that) but what other reason could cause an area to be designated as NME?

Good question Jeff.

When I wrote about "public lands" I was referring to lands that belong to the people of this country. These are often called Federal lands. Public lands don't include State or municipal lands, including State, city, county or regional parks. Usually the public lands are managed by either the BLM or the Forest Service although there are exceptions.

All public lands are open to location and claim if they are not either claimed already or specifically "withdrawn from entry". Withdrawn from entry means the land has been temporarily put off limits to claiming by an administrative order or permanently put of limits to claiming by an Act of Congress.

Examples of areas permanently off limits to claiming are National Parks and Wilderness areas. There are other types of mineral withdrawal that are not absolutely off limits. Here are a couple of examples:

1. In some areas there have been "powersite" withdrawals. These are common in the Pacific Northwest and California. They are usually for a dam proposal or flood control. You can usually claim those lands after a review by the Secretary of the Interior. A lot of the claims on the major rivers in California are on these kind of withdrawal.

2. Much of the private land in the West has minerals that are still owned by the public. On those private lands it is sometimes possible to prospect and make a claim after you have notified the land owner and posted a bond. Rarely does private land come with the mineral rights but not all private land fits this category.

Most mineral withdrawals only restrict claiming. Prospecting is still OK, you just can't make a claim or keep anyone else from prospecting. The Greaterville withdrawal fits in this category.

Each mineral withdrawal has it's own stated purpose, time limits and restrictions. You have to read each withdrawal order to see just what has been withdrawn and how long the withdrawal lasts. I've studied a lot of these withdrawal orders. I've only seen one withdrawal that prohibited prospecting but there might be others.

The biggest withdrawals are all open to prospecting - the wilderness areas! Right in the Wilderness Act itself it states that all wilderness has to remain open to prospecting. That's a lot of open untouched land.

Although mineral withdrawals are a great opportunity for prospecting there is a lot more unclaimed public lands open than there are withdrawals. The Greaterville gold fields are a good example. There are about 3,200 acres in the withdrawn area but there is even more land than that still unclaimed outside of the withdrawal yet still in producing gold territory. Some of that unclaimed land has better gold than the already claimed areas.

You might think that is because Greaterville is relatively unknown but there are lands open to prospecting and claim even in the best known areas. I map out the land status of hundreds of square miles of mineral lands each year, including more than a thousand claim locations. There are always open areas wherever I've looked.

A good example is Rich Hill in Arizona. Big nuggets are found there every month in season and have been for 150 years. It's one of the most popular prospecting destinations in the West. Before I mapped that area I was told by everyone that "it's all claimed up". Well it wasn't and it still isn't. When we released the Rich Hill map there were eleven claims made right on Rich Hill itself within the month. Three years later and there is still unclaimed land on that famous Hill. It's never "all claimed up".

In my mind there is no excuse for prospecting another man's claim. There is much more land available for prospecting than land that has already been claimed. Between mineral withdrawals, wilderness areas and the much bigger amount of unclaimed public lands there are multiple opportunities for the prospectors who do minimal research before they go out.

 

[dredgeman]

Good question Jeff.

When I wrote about "public lands" I was referring to lands that belong to the people of this country. These are often called Federal lands. Public lands don't include State or municipal lands, including State, city, county or regional parks. Usually the public lands are managed by either the BLM or the Forest Service although there are exceptions.

All public lands are open to location and claim if they are not either claimed already or specifically "withdrawn from entry". Withdrawn from entry means the land has been temporarily put off limits to claiming by an administrative order or permanently put of limits to claiming by an Act of Congress.

Examples of areas permanently off limits to claiming are National Parks and Wilderness areas. There are other types of mineral withdrawal that are not absolutely off limits. Here are a couple of examples:

1. In some areas there have been "powersite" withdrawals. These are common in the Pacific Northwest and California. They are usually for a dam proposal or flood control. You can usually claim those lands after a review by the Secretary of the Interior. A lot of the claims on the major rivers in California are on these kind of withdrawal.

2. Much of the private land in the West has minerals that are still owned by the public. On those private lands it is sometimes possible to prospect and make a claim after you have notified the land owner and posted a bond. Rarely does private land come with the mineral rights but not all private land fits this category.

Most mineral withdrawals only restrict claiming. Prospecting is still OK, you just can't make a claim or keep anyone else from prospecting. The Greaterville withdrawal fits in this category.

Each mineral withdrawal has it's own stated purpose, time limits and restrictions. You have to read each withdrawal order to see just what has been withdrawn and how long the withdrawal lasts. I've studied a lot of these withdrawal orders. I've only seen one withdrawal that prohibited prospecting but there might be others.

The biggest withdrawals are all open to prospecting - the wilderness areas! Right in the Wilderness Act itself it states that all wilderness has to remain open to prospecting. That's a lot of open untouched land.

Although mineral withdrawals are a great opportunity for prospecting there is a lot more unclaimed public lands open than there are withdrawals. The Greaterville gold fields are a good example. There are about 3,200 acres in the withdrawn area but there is even more land than that still unclaimed outside of the withdrawal yet still in producing gold territory. Some of that unclaimed land has better gold than the already claimed areas.

You might think that is because Greaterville is relatively unknown but there are lands open to prospecting and claim even in the best known areas. I map out the land status of hundreds of square miles of mineral lands each year, including more than a thousand claim locations. There are always open areas wherever I've looked.

A good example is Rich Hill in Arizona. Big nuggets are found there every month in season and have been for 150 years. It's one of the most popular prospecting destinations in the West. Before I mapped that area I was told by everyone that "it's all claimed up". Well it wasn't and it still isn't. When we released the Rich Hill map there were eleven claims made right on Gold Hill itself within the month. Three years later and there is still unclaimed land on that famous Hill. It's never "all claimed up".

In my mind there is no excuse for prospecting another man's claim. There is much more land available for prospecting than land that has already been claimed. Between mineral withdrawals, wilderness areas and the much bigger amount of unclaimed public lands there are multiple opportunities for the prospectors who do minimal research before they go out.

Hello Clay
After much research on jurisdiction of the state land. Most of the Public Domain (land owned by the American Public) is considered Public Lands. Where the problem comes in is everyone thinks they are Federal Lands. They are not , only managed by Federal Agencies until disposed of to the people of the USA.

The States have abrogated their responsibility to protect the peoples rights. In Calif less than 10 percent of the Federal Lands actually is Federal Lands.

otherwise carry on you are credit to mining thanks

 

[mytimetoshine]

The guy said he was typically really nice to people, until one of THEM pulled a gun on HIM. After that he felt it might be wise to carry a gun himself. I don't blame him. I get the sense you might not have read his post that carefully..

I wasn't referring to his post... Did i quote him? No....

Maybe i went on a bit of a rant but in my limited experience gold-prospecting i have heard enough stories to know this goes on all the time. And ive been told plenty of times by fellow prospectors " what ever you do dont go pass that tree or over to that side of the river etc...or the owner will pull up on you with a shot gun".... And im all like what? There isnt even any signs.....anybody could harmlessly wander over to that area not knowing they are on somebody's private prop. ESPECIALLY when its right next to a public area.....bottom line is its the land owners responsibility to respectfully inform people of the land boundaries. Not the publics responsibility to spend the day at some office researching old maps before going for a hike.....
I understand where they are coming from, i wouldnt want people on my land either but just because you have told 1000 people once doesnt give you the right to flip out on the 1001 st person.....understand?

 

[mytimetoshine]

The guy said he was typically really nice to people, until one of THEM pulled a gun on HIM. After that he felt it might be wise to carry a gun himself. I don't blame him. I get the sense you might not have read his post that carefully..

I wasn't referring to his post... Did i quote him? No....

Maybe i went on a bit of a rant but in my limited experience gold-prospecting i have heard enough stories to know this goes on all the time. And ive been told plenty of times by fellow prospectors " what ever you do dont go pass that tree or over to that side of the river etc...or the owner will pull up on you with a shot gun".... And im all like what? There isnt even any signs.....anybody could harmlessly wander over to that area not knowing they are on somebody's private prop. ESPECIALLY when its right next to a public area.....bottom line is its the land owners responsibility to respectfully inform people of the land boundaries. Not the publics responsibility to spend the day at some office researching old maps before going for a hike.....
I understand where they are coming from, i wouldnt want people on my land either but just because you have told 1000 people once doesnt give you the right to flip out on the 1001 st person.....understand?

Its like that grumpy old man on the street that yells at every kid that comes near his lawn...really? Is it worth it to be such an a-hole?