I got a new sluice with GH Mats and need advice.

[IMAUDIGGER]

Looks like you are all set up for some good weekend shoveling.
I would be nervous if I was catching gold in the bottom section of a sluice box.

 

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[mpgken]

The test went better than expected! I was shoveling material with rocks up to 3" and just hand picking the bigger ones as I worked. I got in a spot 20 feet away from the last and in the middle of the stream. I got about 4 grains of +20 flakes and hardly anything smaller. I did have amounts of -50 and -100 black and blond sand. There was about 5 tablespoons of that small sand. However, this time I had very little gold in that small size. The sluice was doing everything great. The Talon was doing a fantastic job of incremental processing and areas cleared out while a row stayed holding gravels. That's a real work of hydrologic wonder that mat. That allowed me to use higher flow up top and when material reached the bottom the water was ripping at about a half inch. The Razorback and downd draft sections kept a line of gravel where they should and cleared out where they should. I can shovel fast as I want. Dug a big ole hole in one day. I am very very happy! Now I have a production sluice! I have one question. Since I got plenty of very small -50 and -100 sands, shouldn't there be gold that size as well? Maybe where I was had mostly bigger gold? I would think if I caught small sand small gold would be there. 20' away and higher up the bank There's lots of the small stuff. This gold had mercury and I had bits of white colored lead. I am going to go back out in a week and shovel more into this beast! I really think this sluice is processing well from top to bottom. Anyone else with a sluice shaped like this may want to try the mat configuration of what this has now. Talon-Talon-Razorback-Downdraft-Razorback.
Thanks again for all you guys' input!

In a creek, many times fine gold will not settle where larger gold will. The fine gold you find near the bank should be expected and larger gold won't be there. In fact if you start higher up on the bank you'll find very little gold and what is there will be extremely small. Then as you work your way down to the water edge you'll find more gold and the gold will get larger. Again as you work into the water - the closer you get to the center of the creek the larger the gold will be and the less fine gold you will find.

Search Doc's videos, he has one where he shows how fast gold settles. The larger it is the faster it falls out. So areas with faster moving water in the creek will allow the heavier gold to fall out and the lighter will stay in the upper level of the water. The heavy gold is going to run in the bed layer and fall out as fast as it can. This is true as long as the pieces of gold are the same shape.

What this means is you won't always find tiny gold with larger gold. As the season wears on the finer gold may drop out in some areas where the larger gold has fallen out now because the water flow will decrease and more material from the bed load will fill the bottom of the creek.

Also watch Doc's videos on Proportional Force. You should watch this video several times as it isn't an easy concept to get. A larger flat piece of gold will not always fall where a smaller round piece will. That fine gold you find near the bank may have a shape that doesn't allow it to fall out where you are digging now and it gets pushed to the side of the creek with slower water flow and that is where it can drop to the bed load section of the water and eventually fall out. Incremental processing also occurs and that is another video you should watch several times. All these apply not only to your sluice and the GH mats but also to the creek.

Doc has made hundreds of videos and they are all worth watching several times. The old timers did not have the science that Doc teaches in his videos. They were good at what they knew but they did not know what we know today.

Hope this helps.

 

[mpgken]

Looks like you are all set up for some good weekend shoveling.
I would be nervous if I was catching gold in the bottom section of a sluice box.

On a traditional sluice yes you should be concerned about finding gold in the last section of the sluice. But with GH mats there is no need to be concerned. It works much different than the old school sluices that do the same thing over and over all the way down (definition of insanity). GH mats intentionally have different capture zones in the different mats for catching different sizes and shapes of gold. Don't need to worry about losing any gold with GH mats.

Watch Doc's videos on proportional force and incremental processing then you'll understand how GH mats work better than the traditional expanded over moss. You should watch these two videos at least twice to really understand the science and what Doc is explaining.

 

[Tahoegold]

Thank you for the great response mpgk. You are confirming what I was thinking about the fine gold high up on the inside bend and the lack of it toward the river chanel. I wasnt thinking about the later part of the year when the lower flow could deposit finer gold over the larger. Great info. I'm looking at going back and digging toward the river more with a better configuration to process full shovels using unough flow so I dont need to classify yet be able to capture fine gold too.

In a creek, many times fine gold will not settle where larger gold will. The fine gold you find near the bank should be expected and larger gold won't be there. In fact if you start higher up on the bank you'll find very little gold and what is there will be extremely small. Then as you work your way down to the water edge you'll find more gold and the gold will get larger. Again as you work into the water - the closer you get to the center of the creek the larger the gold will be and the less fine gold you will find.

This is what I was thinking that maybe the small gold just wasnt there. Thanks for responding. Well put info! I have been watching Doc's videos many times and sometimes he says something that I missed the first time. These newer mats, Talon, and Motherload seem to be advancements in how to capture gold with a multi mat system. I see Doc usung more agressive yet less turbulent designs. I have placed another talon mat into the sluice and am going to replace the down draft and razorback with 2 pieces of motherload. The new configuration will be 3 Tallon and 2 motherload. I believe I didn't have enough Talon to adequately process incrementally the volume of material from a shovel full of dirt. Looking at this config now, I believe there is adequate space for material from one shovel to process the large gold. The Motherload has many groves per 6" compared to Razorback or Downdraft and should be able to process the remaining fine gold that got away from the Talon. I am going to experiment with UR in the flair. Doc mentioned one time that UR acts like a corrugated slick plate and I think it may capture some gold right away before it gets going fast.
I realize that folks like to have a slick plate, but, I dont think that it's necessary given that these mats dont use riffles. Once the material has water flowing over it it seems to move on through. Why not use the flair as a capture zone? I haven't read of anyone doing this. I think it would capture some fine gold right away before it gets moving fast. Doc uses URunder the header and the flair of a stream sluice is that. It would increase capture and add another mat type. I'm going to fill the flair with it.

Search Doc's videos, he has one where he shows how fast gold settles. The larger it is the faster it falls out. So areas with faster moving water in the creek will allow the heavier gold to fall out and the lighter will stay in the upper level of the water. The heavy gold is going to run in the bed layer and fall out as fast as it can. This is true as long as the pieces of gold are the same shape.

What this means is you won't always find tiny gold with larger gold. As the season wears on the finer gold may drop out in some areas where the larger gold has fallen out now because the water flow will decrease and more material from the bed load will fill the bottom of the creek.

Also watch Doc's videos on Proportional Force. You should watch this video several times as it isn't an easy concept to get. A larger flat piece of gold will not always fall where a smaller round piece will. That fine gold you find near the bank may have a shape that doesn't allow it to fall out where you are digging now and it gets pushed to the side of the creek with slower water flow and that is where it can drop to the bed load section of the water and eventually fall out. Incremental processing also occurs and that is another video you should watch several times. All these apply not only to your sluice and the GH mats but also to the creek.

Doc has made hundreds of videos and they are all worth watching several times. The old timers did not have the science that Doc teaches in his videos. They were good at what they knew but they did not know what we know today.

Hope this helps.

I saw all his videos. So very informative! I am understanding this incremental processing and proportional force. That's why I was moving from where I found fine gold to where I thought the bigger gold would be down and out into the channel. It makes sense that there would be no fine gold there.I believe that the pieces of gold I had lower in the sluice were there because my sluice did not have the capacity to process the material in the 2 talon mats. Therefore I am adding a third. It looks like there's more space to process now. Plus I need to pay attention to feed rates. I captured -100 blackd and blond sands so I feel that if there was more fine gold it would have been there. .
I will be keeping the old mats as they did a great job capturing in slow water. I realize now though that I can benifit by adding UR at the end to allow a smooth flow to let the fines settle out.
This has been a fun project and I am seeing better results. I am curious as to how well the Motherload works in this sluice. I will try the banks where the fine gold is and then the channel where the larger gold is and try to match the speed of my water. I will place a gold pan at the end to see what I may ne missing. I am trying to become confident in my sluice and build it to capture gold to the best of it's ability. In between I'll have a sandwich, and enjoy the sceenery a little!!
Doc, if you read this I just want to say THANK YOU!! Your explainations are very easy to understand and we are all benefiting from your work. THANK YOU!!

 

[Tahoegold]

Looks like you are all set up for some good weekend shoveling.
I would be nervous if I was catching gold in the bottom section of a sluice box.

I think I was shoveling faster than my mats could process. You're right about this. I'm re configuration my mats and adding some. Plus I'll be more careful about my feed rate. Yes, I'm a weekend warrior. We had massive storms this year in California. I couldn't resist trying to gold mine after that. It's great fun! Who knows where this may lead. I'm getting a better understanding of the processes from watching Doc's videos and enjoy learning about this. Plus I get to ask questions from experienced folks here. And, I'm gaining experience. Who knows, maybe I'll keep growing until I need to get a claim so I can mine my own business lol!

 

[Tahoegold]

Thank you all for your input. Thank you Doc for your videos and research. I have the final build. (To date as sluices are convertable!) I read someone's post saying these sluices with the aluvial shape are wrong. Well, the top part has higher pressure and the lower part has lower pressure on the water flow. It made sense to me to put Gold Hog Talon in that high pressure area. It really clears out the bigger rocks on that aggressive yet low profile mat. It's doing an excellent job there. Then, for the lower pressure area it made sense to use the Gold Hog Mother Load mat which has an even lower profile and works at getting the super fine gold. The flare area has UR (AKA, Under Riffle) and due to the shape of the flare, all the material on the mat gets pushed into the center. I had not forseen this. So, the UR in the flare works great and nothing but black sand and gold was left there. The material moved off the flare just as well as if there was no mat. Doc, mentions in a video that UR acts like a corrugated slick plate and it does. That's why I tried it there. It does a fine job and adds another type of capture zone. So, anyone that has this type of sluice. I wanted to say, this seems to work really well. No need to classify, maybe just pick out the really big rocks. The only gold I found at the last 2 groves of the last Mother Load mat was tiny specks that were so small they were only visible when the sun shone on them and I could tell it was gold. Using this same theory, I built the same system into a keene A51A. Again, thaks all for the advice and direction. This forum rocks!!

A51A

 

[Tahoegold]

Final build works the whole bed load!

Thank you all for your input. Thank you Doc for your videos and research. I have the final build. (To date as sluices are convertable!) I read someone's post saying these sluices with the aluvial shape are wrong. Well, the top part has higher pressure and the lower part has lower pressure on the water flow. It made sense to me to put Gold Hog Talon in that high pressure area. It really clears out the bigger rocks on that aggressive yet low profile mat. It's doing an excellent job there. Then, for the lower pressure area it made sense to use the Gold Hog Mother Load mat which has an even lower profile and works at getting the super fine gold. The flare area has UR (AKA, Under Riffle) and due to the shape of the flare, all the material on the mat gets pushed into the center. I had not forseen this. So,the UR in the flare works great and nothing but black sand and gold was left there. The material moved off the flare just as well as if there was no mat. Doc, mentions in a video that UR acts like a corrugated slick plate, and it does. That's why I tried it there. It does a fine job and adds another type of capture zone. So, anyone that has this type of sluice, I wanted to say, this seems to work really well. No need to classify, maybe just pick out the teally big rocks. The only gold I found at the last 2 groves of the last Mother Load mat was tiny specks that were so small they were only visible when the sun shone on them and I could tell it was gold. Using this same theory, I built the same system into a keene A51A. Again, thaks all for the advice and direction. This forum rocks!! View attachment 1516824 View attachment 1516825 View attachment 1516826

A51A View attachment 1516827 View attachment 1516828

 

[mpgken]

 

[Tahoegold]

Ok, I had to do a little update. Anyone that is considering Gold Hog mats or having a hard time deciding or not getting the results they are looking for? Here's the latest conversion. Soft flowing water is the situation. However, according to Doc's videos, it's the angle that really gets the mats active due to proportional force. So, I got the water deep enough to move material fast and steep enough to make the mats active but not completely blow everything out.. Just as an experiment. And poured 1/2" classified material as fast as it would take it. It would pile up a little at times and I'd let it wash down some. It's nice to not have to constantly move rocks by hand. I TRIED to overload it because I was only getting a few specks in the lower 3 mats. 80% of the gold was in the UR in the FLAIR!! the next 2 mats are razorback. The Talon I had in it was not getting enough water flow to become active. I really like the Razorback. Then 3 mats of Motherload. This sluice is nice and big. 12"at the flair and 14" at the bottom and 32" long not including the flair. Add in the 6" of UR at the top and its 36 inches of mat. Theres a few inches of low profile inspection mat. I'm liking that inspection mat. Because I can see when I'm moving off the gold or not.
Any way, once these mats are washing out almost completely from proper flow, I have just a little black sand in each capture grove in each mat. I get about a half a cup of concentrates. I am just amazed how fast these mats can process material. The most amazing part is the gold getting caught mostly in the UR at the flair. Then some in the Razor back and just a few colors in the Motherload. I was pouring as fast as I could and almost nothing made it past the Razorback. I have a whole new respect for the engineering and effectiveness of Gold Hog mats. I still like the fluid beds for in river digging. But, if I'm carrying dirt I'm classifing to get rid of rocks and maximize my dirt amounts. Then, it's Gold Hog time all the way for me. I'm not even concerned anymore about losses. Of course, setting up the waterflow is crucial. But, once you understand where that is, theses mats work great. I don't measure the angle. I just throw some dirt in and watch to see how the mats work. When they've sat for a few minutes and they have worked all they are going to work, I have just a line of black sand. The first shovel leaves some blond sands. But once there's enough black sand, thats all there is. On the Razorback, though, on the outside edges theres a few pebbles. What a work horse. Once I got the hang of the waterflow, and checked the capture of the mats, I became fearless at just dumping from a bucket. Yep, I'm worked and beat! That's how I wanna feel at the end of the day!

 

[Capt Nemo]

If you check out this page: Stream Sluice - Placer Gold Stream Sluice you can see how Doc set up the low-flow mat and high-flow mat for his stream sluice. Yukon is not designed for a stream sluice -- it's a commercial mat for running under expanded metal. You may decide you want to swap this out for something that matches his stream sluice mats.

Yukon mat is being used on the GH stream sluice low flow mat right after the UR at the head. I know cause I just bought 2 of them.

 

[Tahoegold]

Yukon mat is being used on the stream sluice low flow mat right after the UR at the head. I know cause I just bought 2 of them.

I had some Yukon at first. It is something that I see that works. I just dont know if have enough flow to clear it. Talon just filled up. I'm using razorback, the original style. The newer Razorback has a taller riffel and works with faster water. The kind I have seems to exchange well and adds flow interuption. Most of my gold is 50 mesh and smaller. I may try some Yukon again. I've seen how guys are going to that and getting fine gold. Does it clear with low flow?

 

[Tahoegold]

Hey Capt Nemo,
I found the section that came with this sluice when I bought it a few years ago! I saved it just in case. Giving it another go! Thanks for mentioning the new thought on Youkon mat. I will see how it works! Heres a photo of it up top after UR....

 

[Tahoegold]

Just a note,
The UR in the flair is not secured. The inspection mat is glued down with a "lip" that holds the top down and keeps material flowing up and into the sluice. The Yukon section is not glued or taped either, there's a metal ramp that holds the top of the Yukon and that ramp has inspection mat as well. Therefore, the Yukon AND the UR sections are easily removed while IN STREAM. Any material under the edges I try to snuffer up prior to removal. I can then dip these small sections into a pan and replace, at anytime. I get 80% plus of the captured gold this way. And I can run a couple of buckets, check the gold quantities and never remove the sluice. Any gold falling back in during removal gets caught again anyway. I can tell if I'm on a good streak, what size gold and weather or not I'm diminishing in paydirt. And, keep the sluice in place. I find this a time saver and after checking the entire mat system several times, I'm getting most of my gold in these mini clean-ups. There's a nice way to set up for ya.