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Thread: DIY Fluid bed/Traditional Sluice combo?

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  1. #1

    Mar 2017
    105
    69 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    DIY Fluid bed/Traditional Sluice combo?

    Hello everyone,
    After quite a bit of research and some thinking.. I have decided to try to build what is more or less similar to a bazooka gold trap but with a few changes. I know that it has been done many times and I have probably read the forum post for each (if there were any). But my question is this. Are there any potential advantages/disadvantages to adapting some of the traditional sluice designs into the mix? For example, miners moss, expanded metal, carpet or riffles on either the inlet or outlet of the box? I will be more than likely making the box from ABS sheeting and Aluminum unless I stumble across a better "cost efficient" option.

    I should note that I will probably be drawing the thing up in solid works and hopefully running some flow simulators to get a better understanding of what is going on in the box, appropriate angles during operation and ideal water flow flow levels. This should be a fun project
    Last edited by oidium45; Oct 08, 2017 at 09:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Charter Member
    us
    Sep 2012
    Tujunga, CA
    Bazooka Gold Trap, A-51, Gold Pan
    855
    934 times
    Prospecting
    There are some threads.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    MrGneissGuy likes this.

  3. #3

    Mar 2017
    105
    69 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by goldog View Post
    There are some threads.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Some threads involving adding traditional sluice setups?

  4. #4

    Feb 2017
    Juneau AK
    106
    121 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Idk if it would be an advantage. The awesome part about fluid bed / bazookas is not having to classifly. Adding riffles and moss would defeat that, plus you have to run FBs pretty steep and fast...might just blow out the rest of the sluice to keep the bed exchanging and the grizzly clear.

    My advice, fwiw, copy off the bazooka design but make the trap an inch or 2 longer.

    Loving my zabooka! I did some surgery on my bigger FB recently, added 10" length and 6" wider scoop. Also tried out a "clay claw". The claw is great so far for holding back those rocks right at bedrock to get them really washed well.

    Good luck on your build!Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #5
    us
    Apr 2017
    Galt, CA
    77
    91 times
    Prospecting
    oidium45 -

    Fluidized and standard sluice designs are incompatible so combining them isn't an effective option - These systems would in effect cancel each other out making the "combined" system ineffective.

    The key feature of the fluidized sluice is the ability to run large quantities of classified or unclassified material. Most standard sluice designs with normal riffle or matting configurations don't have near the throughput of fluidized systems. With that said, Goldwasher has very good success running large volumes of both unclassified and classified in a standard sluice configuration. I would send him a PM to get the details or search TNet. He might also comment on this thread.

    One benefit of using a standard sluice configuration is it can be matted to run in low water conditions when there isn't enough water for the fluidized sluice.

    In my opinion you have two options:
    Option 1: Fluidized sluice system for normal water conditions and a sluice like a Angus MacKirk or LeTrap for low water conditions.
    Option 2: Buy a standard sluice configuration and have a setup for each water condition. Test different riffles, expanded metal, matting, etc. to find what works best in the areas you mine.
    Last edited by SRP_KBell; Oct 09, 2017 at 12:12 AM.
    KevinInColorado and Goodyguy like this.

  6. #6

    Mar 2017
    105
    69 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye1730 View Post
    Idk if it would be an advantage. The awesome part about fluid bed / bazookas is not having to classifly. Adding riffles and moss would defeat that, plus you have to run FBs pretty steep and fast...might just blow out the rest of the sluice to keep the bed exchanging and the grizzly clear.

    My advice, fwiw, copy off the bazooka design but make the trap an inch or 2 longer.

    Loving my zabooka! I did some surgery on my bigger FB recently, added 10" length and 6" wider scoop. Also tried out a "clay claw". The claw is great so far for holding back those rocks right at bedrock to get them really washed well.

    Good luck on your build!Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice! I like that you made the claws retractable.

  7. #7
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    Gold Bug Pro, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil,
    4,237
    9058 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)
    The Idea for a fluid bed came from old style hydraulic riffles. Used to be called a New Zealand Riffle. It was a perpendicular drop in a sluice run with a pressurized tube with holes in it. making a small fluidized drop zone. They didn't become contemporary because they weren't that much of an improvement on recovery.

    You can put a fluid bed at the beggining or end of a sluice ...or you can put riffles on the deck of a fluid bed sluice.

    You will find out that gold tends to get caught in the first recovery section it can.

    As long as the fluid bed chamber is active nothing you do before or after affects whats happening in the chamber.

    They do not negate each other based on their physics.

    Just the amount of gold you can get in it..based on what was already captured.

    After much field use and having to run different boxes under many varying flow conditions. The main function of fluid bed sluices that I even care about is the grizzly and the way it separates oversize while running. I would rather the material then go over low profile riffles (expanded metal) and moss...or gold hog.

    You can run way more material with less classification through a regular sluice with more flow than you will be lead to believe reading average internet tips.Or sales gimmicks.

    I never had a use for a bazooka under a 36" prospector. Way too slow going. I run custom though relatively normal stream sluices on the claim. I got sick of having to set up a bazooka in different spots based on daily flow conditions. Plus the tailings build up right at the sluice gets to be problematic.

    Still waiting to get my hands on a grizzly gold trap. I want to see how much gold stays in the sample riffles without messing with them. It actually looks like the mid size box may be as productive as 36 bazooka. or my standard set up.
    Last edited by Goldwasher; Oct 09, 2017 at 10:12 AM.

  8. #8

    Mar 2017
    105
    69 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    The Idea for a fluid bed came from old style hydraulic riffles. Used to be called a New Zealand Riffle. It was a perpendicular drop in a sluice run with a pressurized tube with holes in it. making a small fluidized drop zone. They didn't become contemporary because they weren't that much of an improvement on recovery.

    You can put a fluid bed at the beggining or end of a sluice ...or you can put riffles on the deck of a fluid bed sluice.

    You will find out that gold tends to get caught in the first recovery section it can.

    As long as the fluid bed chamber is active nothing you do before or after affects whats happening in the chamber.

    They do not negate each other based on their physics.

    Just the amount of gold you can get in it..based on what was already captured.

    After much field use and having to run different boxes under many varying flow conditions. The main function of fluid bed sluices that I even care about is the grizzly and the way it separates oversize while running. I would rather the material then go over low profile riffles (expanded metal) and moss...or gold hog.

    You can run way more material with less classification through a regular sluice with more flow than you will be lead to believe reading average internet tips.Or sales gimmicks.

    I never had a use for a bazooka under a 36" prospector. Way too slow going. I run custom though relatively normal stream sluices on the claim. I got sick of having to set up a bazooka in different spots based on daily flow conditions. Plus the tailings build up right at the sluice gets to be problematic.

    Still waiting to get my hands on a grizzly gold trap. I want to see how much gold stays in the sample riffles without messing with them. It actually looks like the mid size box may be as productive as 36 bazooka. or my standard set up.
    Thank you for chiming in Goldwasher.
    My biggest attraction to a fluid bed was the compact size. It seemed like a better option for backpacking.
    Goodyguy likes this.

  9. #9
    us
    Apr 2017
    Galt, CA
    77
    91 times
    Prospecting
    oidium45 -

    Just to clarify my answer - the benefit of high speed processing of classified or unclassified material in fluidized systems would be reduced by adding miners moss or carpet and expanded metal or even riffles to the material deck. In my opinion it is counter productive - it cancels out the speed benefit, plus complicates the simple cleanup process, which is why I said they are incompatible.

    I should have used the term less effective instead of ineffective.

    I answered this thread thinking it was a continuation of your backpack sluice post - reducing the size parameter to fit in a backpack already reduces your throughput. Not sure if GW caught the other thread.
    KevinInColorado likes this.

  10. #10

    Mar 2016
    233
    161 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by oidium45 View Post
    Nice! I like that you made the claws retractable.
    Flip the claw the other way and add springs so big rocks don't blow through it right away. That way it's just shovel and go.
    Prospector70 likes this.

  11. #11

    Mar 2017
    105
    69 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by SRP_KBell View Post
    oidium45 -

    Just to clarify my answer - the benefit of high speed processing of classified or unclassified material in fluidized systems would be reduced by adding miners moss or carpet and expanded metal or even riffles to the material deck. In my opinion it is counter productive - it cancels out the speed benefit, plus complicates the simple cleanup process, which is why I said they are incompatible.

    I should have used the term less effective instead of ineffective.

    I answered this thread thinking it was a continuation of your backpack sluice post - reducing the size parameter to fit in a backpack already reduces your throughput. Not sure if GW caught the other thread.
    In a way you are correct. It was the recommendation of a bazooka for a backpacking sluice (vs the price) that got me thinking about building one. I am still a bit undecided between building a fluid bed vs a "traditional" sluice at this point since I have very limited experience with either. I suppose I will need to do quite a bit more reading into each before I make a decision. Thanks for the feedback. Every little bit helps.
    goldog likes this.

  12. #12
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    Gold Bug Pro, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil,
    4,237
    9058 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)
    Whatever sluice you are running, Set it flat with enough flow to move golf ball size rocks. You will increase your through put and recovery.
    They really clean themselves off as they move through the sluice.

    The main reason to pre classify is lack of flow. To get a certain size material through the sluice based on available flow.

    as soon as I have good flow I do not pre classify.

    sluice boxes are classifiers..gravel washers concentrators and tailings movers all in one.

    I try not to add steps that keep me from sourcing or feeding material.

    The only unique attribute of a Bazooka, GGT or AMP cal sluice 2b is the fact that there is a grizzly or under current separating material by size.
    Though the size scalped from the slurry is so very large compered to the dense material containing gold that the rest of the separation and concentration is still dependand on laminar flow and eddies for exchange.

    In the fluid bed area of a sluice the water coming out of the tubes is not at high enough flow by pressure or volume to really create exchange. It just keeps the material from solidifying(most of the time)

    The Bazooka, amp ,and GGT are still relying on flow keep the lighter material exchanging and moving out of the sluice. The gold gets caught simply because its gold and it goes down. There is no new discovery in the way any of those sluices work.

    In a traditional sluice, The golds first chance is the first obstruction or drop. Once it makes it down into moss or a recession in carpet, v mat , drop riffle, or portion of Gold Hog. It is going to stay. Unless you really mess with it. Especially when your sluice is running flat.

    Put a Hungarian Riffle backwards as your first riffle, it's going to capture a lot of gold.

    Have to classify because of low flow? Want to carry sluice in your back pack that is light and works great?

    Honestly I recommend the TEE DEE easy sluice. It has multiple capture zones. Its also pretty inexpensive.

    My next choice would be one of the smaller Angus sluices any one of them that is around 10 " wide. They are the most versatile as far as flow goes. If you have water you can run them flat with no classification. Or with if you have low flow.

    After that maybe a Bazooka 36" sniper for size and production.

    Equal would be the new GGT nugget. The smallest one looks workable.

    I personally wouldn't waste my time with any thing smaller. If I don't have the water to actually run a sluice of a decent size, than I am panning.

    In my experience a smaller fluid bed sluice does not increase production or through put. A fluid bed in and of itself does not either.

    If your running a self classifying sluice and running at the lowest flow classifying to be able to move material, you are in no way running faster than you would with a narrower plastic drop riffle. Or an A52 with expanded metal instead of riffles.

    I save hiking in a sluice for second trips. I go in first with a pan only...If I wish I had a sluice I bring one back the next time.
    arizau, coolfinie, russau and 2 others like this.

  13. #13

    Mar 2017
    105
    69 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Goldwasher,
    I gotta tell you, I really appreciate all of the info! Sadly, you explained why I lost my gold last weekend. I had the sluice that I borrowed at the creek at maybe a 15 degree slope. I could see gold on the first mat with every bucket but it washed down quickly while adding material and was never to be found again. (live and learn)



    I really like the size and price of that Tee Dee Ez Sluice. And the fact that it actually has moss and rubber in it vs just all plastic. I my just have to grab that as my starter.
    Last edited by oidium45; Oct 10, 2017 at 08:30 PM.
    Goldwasher likes this.

  14. #14
    us
    Apr 2017
    Galt, CA
    77
    91 times
    Prospecting
    oidium45 -

    I do want to clarify one thing that GW mentioned - "...In the fluid bed area of a sluice the water coming out of the tubes is not at high enough flow by pressure or volume to really create exchange. It just keeps the material from solidifying(most of the time)

    The Bazooka, amp ,and GGT are still relying on flow keep the lighter material exchanging and moving out of the sluice. The gold gets caught simply because its gold and it goes down. There is no new discovery in the way any of those sluices work."

    He is right that all three systems use flow to keep the lighter material exchanging and moving out of the sluice. The difference between AMP sluice (actually now Snake River Products) and the other two is the additional injection of water from each side of the material box that slows down and processes the incoming material, which aids in separation. There is also a partition in the trap that creates a material "bounce" that facilitates the gold drop out into the tray. This is why the AMP sluice has significant capture of gold down to 200 mesh.

  15. #15

    Nov 2013
    Bazooka Gold Trap 48", Keene A51 sluices and a Number 2 Shovel baby!
    831
    1244 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Just make the fluid bed, don't hold anything up on the slick plate, just get the material in and out with no classifying.
    As a wise man once said:
    think less and shovel more <3

 

 
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